ANTHRAX MANIFESTO

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To: Amerithrax

Amerithrax said: "Submit a Tip if you have information regarding the Amerithrax investigation."

"Here's the tip:

Amerithrax is a hoax, a fraud, a diversion, a feint, a Potemkin Village, a sham, a scam, a PR exercise, cheap theatrics, wartime propaganda, disinformazia, a painted storefront on a Hollywood backlot, a joke, a goof, a delaying tactic, a stall, a charade, a fake, and a travesty. The purpose of Amerithrax is to temporarily distract the American people's attention from the fact that the United States is being blackmailed by Saddam Hussein with a handful of dust, and won't be able to do anything about for some time to come. The personnel of Amerithrax, such as Joyce Chiang bungler SA Bob Roth and Ruby Ridge coverup artist Van Harp, were specifically selected for incompetence and/or pliability. The Siegfried and Roy duo who were flown in to provide the bloodhound talking point used to keep this flagging story alive were specifically chosen for their suggestability and questionable professionalism, widely recognized in their own industry. The supposed "person of interest" to Amerithrax, Dr. Steven Hatfill, author of the unpublished science fiction novel Emergence, which postulates a bioterror attack on the US by Saddam Hussein behind a veil of terrorist proxies -- more or less the scenario that has come to pass, in other words -- is actually one of the authors of the Amerithrax gambit, which he conceived along with his immediate social circle of biowar specialists and Pentagon intelligence officers. Hatfill has not the slightest concern that he will ever be arrested in the anthrax deaths. Hatfill's mythical traumatized girlfriend will not be doing Larry King or Barbara Walters, Hatfill will not run out of money for legal expenses and be reduced to panhandling in the streets, because Uncle Sam is making sure he's taken care of, and the "growing sense of excitement" that John Ashcroft cited in the Amerithrax investigation four months ago will come to nothing, just as it has come to nothing in the four months since he cited it."

END TIP            

38 posted on 12/13/2002 9:21 AM PST by The Great Satan

 

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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
Associated Press ^ | October 15, 2002

Posted on 10/16/2002 9:48 PM PDT by The Great Satan

DENVER -- A worst-case scenario from a computer-simulated anthrax attack over the Denver area concludes that more than 500,000 Coloradans could die.

The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank in Washington, D.C., obtained the computer modeling software from the Defense Department and its researchers simulated various scenarios.

In one simulation described at a homeland security conference in Colorado Springs, terrorists in a small airplane release 440 pounds of military-grade powdered anthrax over downtown Denver. The result? Over the next 24 hours, the spores blow 126 miles eastward and expose more than 812,000 people.

Between 447,000 and 591,000 of the victims die, according to the simulation, which uses federal Defense Threat Reduction Agency data and real-time National Weather Service information.

"This is not meant to scare people," threat assessment specialist Dexter Ingram said Monday.

"We're not saying that something like this is going to happen," he said. "It's just one of the many scenarios that we played out, and some of the numbers are not that realistic."

Several unrealistic assumptions are included in the software that would drive the mortality totals much higher than they'd be in a real-life aerial anthrax attack. For example, the model assumes that no one evacuates the affected area and that no one seeks medical help.

"No one is going to stay put for 24 hours if something like this occurs, and everyone is going to seek medical attention," said Suzanne Mencer, director of the Colorado Office of Homeland Security.

The Defense Department uses the Consequences Assessment Tool Set software to predict the effects of attacks with nuclear weapons, chemical and biological weapons, conventional bombs and so-called dirty bombs, which use conventional explosives to disperse radioactive material.


TOPICS:
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KEYWORDS: ANTHRAX
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1 posted on 10/16/2002 9:48 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan

In reality the hospitals will be over whelmed. If the government has policies and infrastructure in place to quickly distribute millions of doses of antibiotics the death rate will be low. If they do not, the death rate will be horrific.

2 posted on 10/16/2002 9:53 PM PDT by cpdiii
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To: cpdiii

"No one is going to stay put for 24 hours if something like this occurs, and everyone is going to seek medical attention," said Suzanne Mencer, director of the Colorado Office of Homeland Security.

Uh, how are they supposed to know they've been anthraxed before it's too late?

3 posted on 10/16/2002 10:00 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan

I think that this number is way overblown. There are worse bugs such as smallpox.

4 posted on 10/16/2002 10:04 PM PDT by Mike Darancette
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To: cpdiii

If the government has policies and infrastructure in place to quickly distribute millions of doses of antibiotics the death rate will be low.

Even if the attack strain were susceptible to antibiotics, and even if enough antibiotics were on hand, and even if the attack was recognized early enough, and even if several million people could be treated in the space of 24 hours (all highly dubious assumptions), the death toll would still be enormous -- far in excess of anything that could be produced by a suitcase nuke attack, for example.

5 posted on 10/16/2002 10:05 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan

OH DAMN! I'm DEAD!

WOO-HOO! NO MORE TAXES!!!

6 posted on 10/16/2002 10:07 PM PDT by RandallFlagg
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To: The Great Satan

A nice follow up to this would be a simulation of the simultaneous nuclear destruction of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and all other terrorist supporting nations.

7 posted on 10/16/2002 10:11 PM PDT by Northpaw
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To: Mike Darancette

There are worse bugs such as smallpox.

You couldn't be more wrong. Simulations of smallpox attacks, even involving aerosolized dispersal, indicate casualties in the hundreds to thousands before the spread of the contagion is contained. The much publicized "Dark Winter" study, which predicted a worst-case smallpox scenario of 1 million dead, is based on the already outdated assumption that vaccine is unavailable. Simulations of anthrax dispersals, OTOH, routinely come up with death tolls in the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions.


8 posted on 10/16/2002 10:12 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: cpdiii

A recent study of terrorist WMD attacks by the RAND Institute identified anthrax as the most deadly threat:

In a worst-case scenario, a nuclear or chemical attack in San Francisco, San Diego or Los Angeles would kill as many as 80,000 people. But 220 pounds of anthrax, if properly dispersed under optimum conditions, would cover 180 square miles. Deaths could reach in the millions.

A chilling `what if' study on terrorist attacks

9 posted on 10/16/2002 10:18 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Mike Darancette

The likely repercussions of a modest-sized release of anthrax into a city are profound and frightening. Hospitals would probably begin to see patients with high fever 3 to 4 days after exposure but it would almost certainly be too late for antibiotic therapy by the time the patients were seen. No emergency room physicians have ever seen a case of inhalation anthrax and medical laboratories have practically no experience with its diagnosis. All patients would die within 24 to 48 hours, and it would be at least 3 to 5 days before a conclusive diagnosis could be made.

Once an anthrax outbreak was diagnosed, the task would be far from complete. Currently, little anthrax vaccine is available and there are no plans for its civilian use. If it were decided to administer antibiotics, two questions need to be answered: How wide an area of people to treat, and what amount of antibiotics would that require. Distinguishing symptoms of anthrax, which could be lethal in a day, from flu or common cold features would be another complication.

Hypothetical studies of anthrax use as a biological weapon have also revealed disconcerting results. One study predicted that release of anthrax into the New York subway during rush hour would cause 10,000 deaths. The World Health Organization estimated that 50 kg of B. anthracis released upwind of a population of 500,000 would result in up to 95,000 deaths and an additional 125,000 people incapacitated. The first responders to an attack would probably be emergency room workers or other health care personnel. Inexperience with anthrax and other biological weapons, leaves us vulnerable and ill-prepared to deal with a bioterrorist attack.


10 posted on 10/16/2002 10:22 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Northpaw


11 posted on 10/16/2002 10:23 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Northpaw

Concerns rise about Iraq's options for retaliation

12 posted on 10/16/2002 10:25 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: EternalHope; Travis McGee; cicero's_son; Mitchell; Nogbad

fyi

13 posted on 10/16/2002 10:26 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan

People in Denver who inhale Anthrax cannot travel to Salt Lake City and infect people there. Then there is the Spanish Flu.

14 posted on 10/16/2002 10:29 PM PDT by Mike Darancette
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To: Mike Darancette

Again, that doesn't matter. This idea that smallpox is a more serious threat because it is infectious is simply a vulgar mistake.

15 posted on 10/16/2002 10:30 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan

Simulated nuclear attack in the Middle East Kills ALL INHABITANTS

16 posted on 10/16/2002 10:32 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: The Great Satan

"This is not meant to scare people,"

...any more than a Hillary Clinton presidency would.

17 posted on 10/16/2002 10:39 PM PDT by Tall_Texan
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To: MJY1288

Problem is, the anthrax isn't meant to be used. The first strike already happened, on 9-11, and the perp is very happy with the results. The anthrax is just to make sure we don't hit him back. Ever wondered why Saddam isn't even breaking a sweat, even though he's been publicly targeted for destruction by the most powerful nation in the world? The answer begins with "A" and ends with "X."

18 posted on 10/16/2002 10:41 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan

"Concerns rise about Iraq's options for retaliation"

A careful review of the "Concerns" of the limp wristed, invertebrate Liberals, reveals that Iraq has no "Options" and the bed wetting Liberals prove once again that they're irrelevant

19 posted on 10/16/2002 10:44 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: The Great Satan

Quite realistic when one assumes the following:

  1. Perfect weather conditions
  2. Perfect dispersal
  3. No one noticing 250KG of anthrax
  4. No one noticing the plane continously making passes
  5. No one evacuating
  6. The total break down of the US transportation system....to include automobiles
  7. The total lack of all anti biotics.

Other then that...sure, seems plausable to me. Let the panic begin.

20 posted on 10/16/2002 10:46 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: The Great Satan

"Problem is, the anthrax isn't meant to be used"

Niether are nukes, So what's your point :-)

21 posted on 10/16/2002 10:46 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: The Great Satan

Several unrealistic assumptions are included in the software that would drive the mortality totals much higher than they'd be in a real-life aerial anthrax attack. For example, the model assumes that no one evacuates the affected area and that no one seeks medical help.

"No one is going to stay put for 24 hours if something like this occurs, and everyone is going to seek medical attention," said Suzanne Mencer, director of the Colorado Office of Homeland Security.

I hope Ms. Mencer does not really believe her own statements. If she does, then she is completely misinformed about the nature of the threat.

For instance, symptoms do not occur for several days. By then it is too late to administer antibiotics. If you got a lethal dose, you are likely to die regardless of the treatment you receive.

Since it is likely that NO ONE WOULD EVEN KNOW the attack had occurred until people started showing up with symptoms, treatment would mostly fail. However, once thousands of people started to die, panic would almost certainly set in.

Based on her statements about the assumptions used, I would have to say fatalities would be HIGHER than assumed, not lower. Likewise, I would have to say Ms. Mencer is not being honest with the public. (I do not believe she is ignorant of the facts, which would be even worse for a person in her position.)

22 posted on 10/16/2002 10:47 PM PDT by EternalHope
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To: The Great Satan

Our government had better be keeping a close eye on Iraqi ambassadors and the Iraqui agents who work in their embassy. They had better also keep close tabs on what is being carried into the country via "diplomatic pouches".

If I were king, every conversation these guys made, every contact they had would be heavily monitored.

23 posted on 10/16/2002 10:49 PM PDT by Jmouse007
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To: The Great Satan

First of all, you don't need to vacinate against anthrax, most antibiotics will kill it. Secondly, you need to inhale it or have it settle on open sours in very high dosages...why you don't hear about to many anthrax outbreaks. Anthrax is not passed from person to person....like say, smallpox. Furthermore, it doesn't just drop you dead. If that was the case, the anthrax attacks of last year would have killed thousands not 5. Get a grip, as a weapon it is only the terror side in a modern society that has any effect. Yeah, if you drop it on a bunch of dirt peasants in N. Iraq who haven't figured out to wash their hands, sure...in a society that mass produces antibiotics....hardly.

These are worst....way unrealistic worst case scenarios designed to stir public panic so said organizations get hefty gov. handouts.

24 posted on 10/16/2002 10:51 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: MJY1288

Niether are nukes, So what's your point :-)

Your analogy is precisely correct. So the point is, Saddam is laughing. With 9-11, he pulled off the sweetest, most artistic act of revenge in human history, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. No wonder Saddam's looking so chipper these days.

25 posted on 10/16/2002 10:51 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan

Might just as well have said:

SIMULATED A-BOMB OVER D.C. KILLS 100,000 HUMAN BEINGS 600,000 DEMOCRATS

26 posted on 10/16/2002 10:52 PM PDT by Old Professer
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To: The Great Satan; Nogbad; keri

Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
...
"This is not meant to scare people," threat assessment specialist Dexter Ingram said Monday.

What a great quote!

27 posted on 10/16/2002 10:55 PM PDT by Mitchell
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To: Stavka2

No one noticing 250KG of anthrax

Once dispersed the spores are too fine to see. Nor do they leave vapor trails. We do not have ground detectors that can reliably pick it up (although it could be detected if we were very lucky).

No one noticing the plane continously making passes

Unfortunately, it only takes one pass, upwind of the target. The spores disperse for a LONG ways (126 miles in the study), thus eliminating the need for multiple passes.

If they have pre-positioned anthrax in this country, the only prudent thing to assume is that they will use it no later than when we begin the attack on Iraq. It is VERY bad news.

28 posted on 10/16/2002 10:57 PM PDT by EternalHope
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To: The Great Satan

First it wasn't Sadam at 9/11 it was the Saudies...the same ones that US troops are still protecting. Secondly, why haven't tens of thousands died from the letters?
Why only 5? You are spreading panic and nothing else.

29 posted on 10/16/2002 10:58 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: The Great Satan

I don't subscribe to your defeatist atitude. I look at this at a big loss for anyone who wants to poison our people. Our response is far more lethal than anything these towel heads can muster. You can buy into the thought that we should be scared of Iraq's response to our inforcing the cease fire agreements Saddam Hussain signed onto if you like. I look at this as how Saddam will be forced to complying to the terms he agreed to, or face the wrath of our military forces. I still look at this country as the "home of the brave" NOT the home of the afraid!

30 posted on 10/16/2002 11:00 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: Stavka2

First of all, you don't need to vacinate against anthrax, most antibiotics will kill it. Secondly, you need to inhale it or have it settle on open sours in very high dosages...why you don't hear about to many anthrax outbreaks.

Adding antibiotic resistance to bacteria is a trivial exercise. I do it routinely in the lab. You can do it with it a kit that costs about $500. But it doesn't matter, anyway. Inhale a significant bolus and it's all over if you don't get treatment in 24 hours, and your chances aren't close to 100% even if you get treated sooner than that. In a mass dispersal, literally millions of people would have be treated on a 24-hour timescale -- never mind the inevitable collapse of the civil order, as people hear the death clock ticking and scramble to cut out their friends and neighbors in the rush for treatment.

And, no, you don't hear of many huge anthrax outbreaks naturally, because anthrax isn't normally weaponized. Dump a briefcase full of the anthrax powder sent to Daschle on the NYC subway tracks, however, and you can kiss Manhattan goodbye. At minimum, the same goes for any of city whose economy depends on underground mass transit.

Sorry to break it to you but, like everyone else, you've been living in La-La Land in regard to this threat. The person who thought up 9-11 was very smart, very ruthless, very patient, and knew exactly what he was doing. If you think the back-end security was left to chance, well, I got news for you -- you're in for a nasty surprise.

31 posted on 10/16/2002 11:05 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Stavka2

why haven't tens of thousands died from the letters?

Uh, because the letters were threats, not attacks, dummy. You still haven't figured that out, after a year? What kind of mush do you use for brains? "THIS IS NEXT WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US." What part of this message don't you understand?

32 posted on 10/16/2002 11:07 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan

Ok, so this was Denver.....

33 posted on 10/16/2002 11:09 PM PDT by Hunble
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To: MJY1288

I don't subscribe to your defeatist atitude.

I'm more interested in comprehending reality than getting in touch with my emotions. Sorry -- I know that's a difficult concept for products of progressive education to grasp. It doesn't matter what you want to believe because, in the end, real forces trump wishful thinking.

34 posted on 10/16/2002 11:12 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan

And your solution is?

I know, let's not attack Iraq.

35 posted on 10/16/2002 11:16 PM PDT by home educate
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To: The Great Satan

" With 9-11, he pulled off the sweetest, most artistic act of revenge in human history, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. No wonder Saddam's looking so chipper these days.

Okay, I have posted this to you before. Here we go again. Within six months Sadam will be dead, and his country administered by the 82 Airborne.

36 posted on 10/16/2002 11:16 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: home educate

And your solution is?

I don't have one. Do you? I'm sure George Bush would be grateful for any suggestions.

37 posted on 10/16/2002 11:19 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan

"I'm more interested in comprehending reality than getting in touch with my emotions."

LOL, Please explain how Saddam or anyone else can deliver a massive anthrax attack?

Will it be by U.S. Mail?

Will it be by unmanned aircraft?

Will it be by Crop Duster?

Will Saddam deliver it personally?

Will Saddam use his phantom intercontinental Ballistic missiles?

Somehow I don't think it's me that is having trouble dealing with reality :-)

38 posted on 10/16/2002 11:20 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: SoCal Pubbie

Dream on. BTW, were you one of the idiots who was predicting we'd be going in on October 6, because of the "New Moon"? There have been so many delusional posts of that nature on this forum over the last year, it's hard to keep track. Oh, yeah, when's the next New Moon? Shh! Don't tell Saddam! He'll be crapping his pants. Not!

39 posted on 10/16/2002 11:22 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: MJY1288

Please explain how Saddam or anyone else can deliver a massive anthrax attack?

Guess you weren't watching TV on September 11, 2001. Funny, it was in all the papers, too. I can't imagine how you missed it -- unless it just didn't register, for some reason.

40 posted on 10/16/2002 11:23 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Stavka2

Secondly, why haven't tens of thousands died from the letters?

The letters were sealed around the edges with tape. The quantity used was very small (a couple of grams). And the letters themselves warned the person who opened them that they contained anthrax. All the people known to be exposed got treatment immediately.

Only thing is, the spores were so small that some of them went right through the paper. Lots of postal equipment got contaminated, and some postal workers as well.

BTW: Personally, I think a major reason the French and Germans have cut and run is that they are afraid. I applaud President Bush's courage, and pray that we are ready when he makes his move.

41 posted on 10/16/2002 11:23 PM PDT by EternalHope
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To: EternalHope

Personally, I think a major reason the French and Germans have cut and run is that they are afraid.

Of course they're afraid. Even before we get to the end-game, they're will be plenty of lesser scale attacks on soft targets by that famous "loose-knit network of Islamic militants" to send Saddam's message to our allies. (Wait a minute, I thought Saddam and the Islamic fundamentalists are bitter enemies who would never work together. I read it in the New York Times, so it must be true. LOL!)

Australia: Abu Bakar warns PM against Iraq war

42 posted on 10/16/2002 11:31 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: EternalHope

Something to take the panic off of you:

Stanford Prepares to Treat Anthrax and Other Bioterrorism Threats

Researchers - New Anthrax Findings

Viral protein stops anthrax in its tracks

Anthrax informational

43 posted on 10/16/2002 11:31 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: MJY1288

I still look at this country as the "home of the brave" NOT the home of the afraid!

I do too. (Furthermore, I suspect the real reason the French and Germans have cut and run is because they are afraid.)

That does not change the fact that we face a huge threat to our civilian population. Sometimes we must proceed even in the face of great danger. We should be as ready as possible when we do.

44 posted on 10/16/2002 11:33 PM PDT by EternalHope
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To: The Great Satan

If hundreds of thousands are all exposed the same day, they will all present the same "flu symptoms" on the same day, and all will "get better" for a brief period.

By the time the govt figures it out, most of them will be beyond treating.

45 posted on 10/16/2002 11:37 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: The Great Satan

To compare what heppened on Sept. 11th to a massive anthrax attack that kills 500,000 just proves how utterly ignorant you are of how hard it is to deliver biological weapons such as Anthrax.

Just so you know Sherlock, My wife is a microbioligist that identified many of the Anthrax cultures taken from the U.S. Post offices in Washington D.C. along with many of the samples taken form the Hart Senate Office's effected by the Tom Daschle Anthrax letter. In order to deliver enough Anthrax Sphores to kill 500,000 Americans in Denver Colo. We would have to shut down all of our defenses and announce to our enemies that we were completely our of Cipro along with the exact time our radar systems would be down in order for them to avoid the certain death our combat aircraft would guarantee them.

Loosen up the Tin Foil Amigo

46 posted on 10/16/2002 11:39 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: The Great Satan

Mush for brains? Go read the latest info on the new treatments Mr. Great Panic. Working in a lab doesn't mean anything....and adding resistence is not that easy....otherwise, the guy who did the letters would have done it himself, I'm sure he can afford $500.

Welp, you've said it...time to scream the sky is falling and run around with my hands in the air...it's all over man, all over. Where's the key to my bunker?

47 posted on 10/16/2002 11:39 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: EternalHope

I agree. The key is the simultaneous release of anthrax over the most population.

Ten cities could be hit at once.

48 posted on 10/16/2002 11:41 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Stavka2

You "get a grip". Last year's "anthrax attack" used a total of 3 GRAMS.

Iraq has TONS. No one knows how much has been pre-positioned in the USA.

49 posted on 10/16/2002 11:42 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: MJY1288

Last year's "demo attack" was only 3 grams.

What will happen to our economy if on the same day (for simultaneous presentation of "flu symptoms") 100 leaky 1 KILO packages and 1000 leaky envelopes are mailed, FedExed and UPSed?

50 posted on 10/16/2002 11:46 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
Associated Press ^ | October 15, 2002

Posted on 10/16/2002 9:48 PM PDT by The Great Satan

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To: Stavka2

And when will all this stuff be ready?

On a more positive note, Bush is not sitting on his hands. You know he never really believed the cover story about a "right-wing rogue scientist" sending the anthrax letters, right? I hope you weren't dumb enough to fall for that story, at least. Anyway, last April the US government put out a Request For Proposal for a new "morning after" anthrax vaccine to treat the public, with a mooted initial order of 25 million doses once it passes safety. The contract was awarded earlier this month. Safety trials on the vaccine should be complete by the end of 2003 if everything goes according to schedule, so I assume we could have stockpiles on hand sufficient to handle at least a couple of simultaneous big city attacks by early 2004 (25 million doses is enough to treat eight million people, and the number of people potentially exposed in an NYC subway release could be up to 4 million).

Now, that still leaves open several questions, e.g. can the vaccine be delivered to enough people in time to be effective? Can the civil order be maintained in a post-attack scenario? Can the vaccine be delivered promptly to our allies? Will there be enough vaccine to deal with multiple, simultaneous sleeper attacks, say on London, Berlin, Paris, New York, DC, Boston, Sydney, etc.? And so on. So, there are still a number of unanswered questions there, but at least some of that work can be done in parallel.

Bush has warned Saddam, "I am a very patient man." But that's also a warning to us -- don't expect Saddam to be gone any time soon. Unless we get a lucky break and he decides to take exile (as, behind the scenes, we are imploring him to do), he will be there for some time to come.

51 posted on 10/16/2002 11:46 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Travis McGee

Because if 100,000 people got the flue, all gov, public and private sector doctors and scientists would be to stupid to realize what is going on....not to mention when all the cattle and other live stock and wild animals start doing the kicking chicken....and then, to bad...all the antibiotics just ran out? Right? I'm sure there isn't a single person out there who is checking for it too. You get a grip.

52 posted on 10/16/2002 11:47 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2

..and adding resistence is not that easy....otherwise, the guy who did the letters would have done it himself, I'm sure he can afford $500.

Why would he want to that? He wants to stick around, right? This is not an attack, remember? Did that point sink in yet to my mush-for-brains interlocutor?

53 posted on 10/16/2002 11:48 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Stavka2

By the time 100,000 people came down with respiratory symptoms, most of the people exposed would be as good as dead anyway, even on the optimistic assumption of a susceptible strain (i.e. Saddam cheaped out on that $500 plasmid transformation kit).

54 posted on 10/16/2002 11:51 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Travis McGee

Travis, In order to deliver that kind of an attack, the Anthrax Sphores would have to be dispersed from an crop duster or simular aircraft. Anthrax Sphores are heavier than air and with the slightest breeze they are carried away with the wind. It takes a certain parts per million inhaled to cause death, and if caught early enough, Cipro and other drugs will suppliment the immune system enough to kill the sphores. The biggest threat is to contaminate the air supply of a building like what happened at the Post Offices and Daschle's office.

I would be much more worried about contageous virus's like Eboli, and Small Pox before I would be concerned with Anthrax on a scale of that magnitude.

55 posted on 10/16/2002 11:56 PM PDT by MJY1288
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To: MJY1288

Do you think that an airborne attack will come from an Iraqi jet over an ocean? Huh?

How about 100 one kilo mason jars of weaponized anthrax, all tossed onto subway tracks, sports arena and office building fan rooms, in ten major US cities, at the same time that 100 leaky packages are sent by US Mail, UPS and FedEx?

Forget whether 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 or 1,000,000 would die. Our economy would grind to a total halt during the "medical phase", the "burial and grief phase", and the "decontamination phase".

Just think what 3 grams did in the demo attack last year, and consider what 100 kilograms would do, all let loose on one day for simultaneious presentation of "flu symptoms".

56 posted on 10/16/2002 11:56 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: The Great Satan

I disagree. I think Bush is going to go ahead, and take Saddam's best return shot.

It could be grim, but there it is.

57 posted on 10/16/2002 11:59 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee

Good night, My alarm rings in 3 hours, :-(

58 posted on 10/17/2002 0:00 AM PDT by MJY1288
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To: Stavka2

Something to take the panic off of you:

Thanks for the links. Read em all.

It's nice to see we may have better treatments in a few years.

Back to the here and now:
I studied the theory behind the use of weapons of mass destruction decades ago, including biological, chemical, and nuclear. Anthrax was not the potent biological weapon it is now, but the military and strategic issues were the same then as they are now.

There are situations when you must make a move, even if a large number of lives are put in danger. For instance, it is better to lose a million people now, if the alternative is to lose 10 million tomorrow.

I do not know the current threat assessment. No one who does is talking. But it certainly seems that our government has concluded that regardless of how high the current threat is, it will get worse in the future. If the result is a move to take out Saddam NOW, it makes sense for our civilian population to be as prepared as possible.

IF Saddam has been smart enough to smuggle some of his tons of anthrax into the U.S., then you can bet it will be used no later than when we make our move against Iraq.

BTW: If I were going to panic it would have been a long time ago, sitting on the runway, engines running, in a B-52 loaded with nukes, decoding messages telling us what to do next. Do YOU know how to arm a nuke? How close have YOU ever been to a one way ride into Russia?

59 posted on 10/17/2002 0:01 AM PDT by EternalHope
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To: Stavka2

100s of 1000s of folks catch the flu every day. All I am saying is that the way to maximize the effect of an anthrax attack is to let it loose all on the same day. If the attacks are spread over time, it will be much easier to prepare and treat. Simultaneous release compunds the detection and treatment problems we will face.

60 posted on 10/17/2002 0:02 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: MJY1288

Again: forget the # of deaths for a moment, and think about the ECONOMY as we stop to decontaminate all our subways, postal logistics etc.

61 posted on 10/17/2002 0:04 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: EternalHope

WOW! I'll bet you can tell some stories!

62 posted on 10/17/2002 0:06 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee

Here is an article by a scientist who thinks that the Anthrax threat has been exaggerated. If you think he is wrong, I would like to hear why.

63 posted on 10/17/2002 0:09 AM PDT by ganesha
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To: Travis McGee

I think Bush is going to go ahead, and take Saddam's best return shot.

Bush is going to go ahead with something, but what that something is I can only guess (I have a few notions, which I've posted elsewhere). Whatever that something is will involve a very slow buildup, IMO. Bush is in no hurry to back Saddam into a corner -- wouldn't be prudent -- and that has certainly been born out by the pace of events to date. I think the next Presidential Election represents one natural constraint -- although even that could be breached, if the alternative is taking millions of casualties and the total economic loss of our major East Coast cities. A ten-year time frame is not acceptable however -- too many unknowns, involving proxy terror operations, alliances with the likes of Cuba or North Korea, unstoppable, genetically-engineered bioweapons, etc.

The best bet seems to me to go all out on the new vaccine, crank up capacity to the hundreds of millions of doses, make sure it's pre-distributed to every pharmacy in the Western world, push hard on mass-producable biosensors for subways and the like, all the while "isolating" Saddam in every way possible: militarily, economically and politically. If he doesn't fold his hand and take exile, go for the jugular sometime in 2004, when we have a reasonable shot at blunting any doomsday retaliation. It's far from a surefire plan, but I don't see any better alternatives.

64 posted on 10/17/2002 0:14 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Travis McGee; The Great Satan

I think Bush is going to go ahead, and take Saddam's best return shot.

So do I.

I think we both agree The Great Satan is right about the risk this poses to our civilian population.

One possibility is that we have concluded that Saddam let his paranoia and need for control prevent him from pre-positioning anthrax. If so, then we would want to move before he could rectify his mistake. Personally, I think this is unlikely, but possible.

I think the more likely explanation is that we have concluded waiting will make the overall result worse than moving now, even though we could easily lose a LOT of people. I can think of many scenarios where this would be true. No wonder President Bush looks tired.

Question for TGS: Can the new treatments coming "soon" for anthrax defeat a bio-engineered strain? If not, does waiting for them to become available do us any good?

65 posted on 10/17/2002 0:17 AM PDT by EternalHope
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To: ganesha

/1/ He says that terrorists and Saddam can't have weaponized anthrax: well somebody did for last year's "demo".

/2/ Like everyone, he focuses on the casualties, and not the ECONOMY.

66 posted on 10/17/2002 0:21 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: ganesha

The guy is an idiot. A tiny fraction of a gramme of weaponized anthrax accidently seeping through a taped-up envelope killed four people last year, and that anthrax wasn't even transformed with resistance plasmids. Decontamination of the Hart Office building, where an envelope of this stuff was opened, took one year and cost $20 milliom. Use your common sense. Imagine what a breifcase full of the same powder -- i.e. at least a 100,000 times as much as killed those four people -- would do if dispersed through the NYC subway system. Then imagine 19 sleeper agents doing the same thing in other mass-transit oriented cities here, in Europe and Australia. Care to estimate the death toll and the economic cost? Care to imagine what would happen to New York City economically if the subway was shut down for even 12 months?

67 posted on 10/17/2002 0:23 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: EternalHope; The Great Satan

We are clever mice peeking under the door into the lab, but we only see a slice of the room.

I hope (very big hope) that behind the scenes a crash "Manhattan Project" level program has been underway to mass produce the best antidotes to anthrax and other threats.

68 posted on 10/17/2002 0:31 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: The Great Satan

I think Saddam can already have a pretty reliable "trigger" mechanism for his "launch code".

Iraqi agents bring in the anthrax and cache it, in sealed boxes. The agents do not need to know what is in the boxes (sealed one kilo glass jars.)

The locations of the anthrax caches are recorded on GPS, plus a location description.

The agents return to Iraq, their part done.

Sleeper cells of gung ho terrorists are informed that there are caches of super weapons which will be made available to them at the proper moment.

When Saddam is besieged and hopeless, he sends the word to an intermediary in the USA who passes the GPS locations to the sleeper terrorists, who gleefully take the jars and toss them on the subway tracks etc.

69 posted on 10/17/2002 0:38 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: EternalHope

Question for TGS: Can the new treatments coming "soon" for anthrax defeat a bio-engineered strain? If not, does waiting for them to become available do us any good?

"Bioengineering" encompasses a lot of possibilities. Simple addition of resistance plasmids, which Saddam could do with a $500 commercial transformation kit, would nullify the effects of common antibiotics. However, resistance plasmids are no good against vaccines. The older vaccine used by the Army (produced explicitly to defend against Saddam's anthrax, incidentally) or the vaccine now under development for civilian use should both be effective against natural anthrax strains, regardless of their antibiotic resistance. In my view, it is unlikely the Saddam has now or will have in the near future a genetically-engineered anthrax that can neutralize the vaccine. However, that could change if things stretch out too long, which is why Bush can't be too patient.

One important point which I have not been able to get a straight answer on is whether resistance plasmids exist for newer antibiotics like Cipro. I'm not too hopeful about that, but if it were the case, you could put together an effective defense based solely on antibiotics. I think it's a moot point, anyway, because we are nowhere near having the infrastructure in place to distribute them in a timely fashion in the event of a mass release. Probably, by the time that kind of civil defense infrastructure is in place, we'll already have, or be close to having, the vaccine on hand. So, if I were in Bush's shoes, I'd certainly string things out until we have the new vaccine, at least. And I think that's exactly what's going to happen, and all the chest thumpers are going to be disappointed again, just as they have been time and again over the last year, at the pace at which things progress. Fortunately, the guy running the show is handling this in a judicious fashion. I don't think we're going to see any sudden moves out of Bush. My bigger concern is whether Saddam has anything up his sleave. The Bali attack is somewhat disturbing in that regard.

70 posted on 10/17/2002 0:40 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Travis McGee

Something like that.

Trouble is, the Saddam-al Qaeda alliance is absolutely golden for both parties. These martyrdom boys are like attack dogs, straining at the leash. Using them as delivery systems circumvents all the problems of having to rely on self-interested military types, who might be bribed or intimidated by the threat of War Crimes trials. On our side, we have a very powerful factor: everybody knows we are going to win, if we put our minds to it. But the advent of the suicide bomber, a development which Saddam has openly nurtured in his war against Israel, represents a military breakthrough comparable to the invention of the ICBM. Mate these human missiles to aerosolizable anthrax, with an e-mail control system, and you have a deterrent every bit as effective as our nukes.

Saddam has spent his whole life pursuing new methods of physical intimidation -- new forms of torture, nerve gas, mustard gas, biological agents, superguns, 800 kV tripwires, ballistic missiles, nuclear weapons, suicide bombers, and so forth. This is his life work, because very early on in life he figured out that the ability to inflict pain on his opponents was the way to get ahead. He's creative in this sense -- he thinks outside the box -- and we are only now coming to terms with the consequences of that.

71 posted on 10/17/2002 0:51 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: Travis McGee

The majority of people in one particular area are not all going to come down with symptoms in the same area without raising suspicions...while domestic and wild animals are all doing the kicking chicken...sorry, no one these days is that blind. Anthrax infects all living creatures, including Spot. Small animals will die much quicker....when everything is dropping dead or is having respirtory problems or fevers, people notice.

72 posted on 10/17/2002 1:07 AM PDT by Stavka2
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To: The Great Satan; All

Pass 'em on:

Nuclear, Biological, & Chemical Warfare- Survival Skills, Pt. II

73 posted on 10/17/2002 1:35 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: Stavka2

Great. Let's be optimistic and assume Saddam cheaps out on the $500 plasmid resistance kit. What then? Maybe 12 hours after the morning rush-hour, medics on night shift at St. Vincents note a disturbing number of people checking in with respiratory problems. At this point, maybe 25% of the 4 million subways riders exposed to a lethal dose of the anthrax are unsalvageable -- they will die in 7-14 days, irrespective of treatment. Another 75% -- three million people -- are still salvageable. Mayor Bloomberg is alerted. He confers with his aides, knowing that if he goes public, the entire city will dissolve into chaos. They hold-off on an announcement for another couple of hours, consigning perhaps another 5% of the exposed subway riders to certain death. The NY1 News Channel announces that an anthrax dispersal in the subway system is now considered a certainty: all subway lines and boroughs are affected. Everyone knows that they have a window of perhaps 12 hours to start treatment, and that the people who get treatment in two hours will have a much better chance of living than those who start it in 12 hours.

You can write the rest of the scenario yourself.

74 posted on 10/17/2002 2:13 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan

Well, then it sounds like you need to write the president and volunteer for duty as his FEMA coordinator.

75 posted on 10/17/2002 5:16 AM PDT by Stavka2
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To: The Great Satan

Besides, what exactly am I as an individual supposed to do? Besides write the congresscritters? Be to afraid to walk out? Constantly panic at any cold? How about this....write your congresscritter and don't worry about it....because there is nothing you can do.

76 posted on 10/17/2002 5:18 AM PDT by Stavka2
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To: Travis McGee

"Again: forget the # of deaths for a moment, and think about the ECONOMY as we stop to decontaminate all our subways, postal logistics etc."

You are very correct about the economic impact of a Anthrax attack of that size and scope. But just as we must consider Saddam's counter punch, He has to worry about our response to an attack of that magnitude carried out here in this country. Saddam is most definitely a nutcase, but he is not suicidal. Anyone who has built as many monuments to himself as Saddam has all across Iraq is not going to sign his own death certificate. We can survive Saddam's best shot, Saddam can't survive ours.

77 posted on 10/17/2002 6:44 AM PDT by MJY1288
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To: The Great Satan

I agree, and that means hard times lie ahead, vastly beyond 9-11.

78 posted on 10/17/2002 8:22 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Stavka2

I don't disagree. How does that prevent a total crash of our economy while millions stay home and subways, airports, and postal systems are decontaminated?

It cost 20 million and took months to decon the Hart Building after ONE GRAM was partially let loose in one room.

79 posted on 10/17/2002 8:26 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: MJY1288

Saddam is most definitely a nutcase, but he is not suicidal. Anyone who has built as many monuments to himself as Saddam has all across Iraq is not going to sign his own death certificate. We can survive Saddam's best shot, Saddam can't survive ours.

I disagree. Saddam is an old man, he KNOWS he won't live forever! What he is aiming for is a lasting legacy that cannot be erased, even if his 1000s of statues are toppled after he is gone.

A legacy like bringing down Israel and America.

80 posted on 10/17/2002 8:29 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: The Great Satan

I am be an idiot, but I made no such prediction for any specifiic date. I can't wait to serve you you're words on a platter, though. Do you prefer your crow baked or fried?

81 posted on 10/17/2002 8:39 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: EternalHope

While I didn't sit in a buff, I did help keep them in the air. And I would feel a lot better if we had them running 24/7 again. They should be ready to drop their load on Iraq or any other country that even thought about a NBC attack against our country.

82 posted on 10/17/2002 8:52 AM PDT by antidisestablishment
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To: Travis McGee

More of a reason to go after sooner, rather than later

83 posted on 10/17/2002 9:13 AM PDT by MJY1288
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To: MJY1288

Correction : More of a reason to go after Saddam sooner, rather than later

84 posted on 10/17/2002 9:15 AM PDT by MJY1288
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To: Mitchell; Nogbad

Thanks for the ping, Mitchell.

If you haven't already, read: "A bacterolytic agent that detects and kills Bacillus anthracis" in the August, 2002 issue of Nature. Also in the August issue is a short, one page (p.808) piece entitled "Anthrax case provokes doubt among experts."

It is becoming clear, at least to me, the only way to counter the up and coming use of genetically engineered and vaccine resistant microbes is to develop effective treatments. (IMO, we really need to start working fast and furious, here, especially on treatments for Smallpox.)

The article itself is quite technical, but information can still be gleaned, even-so.

85 posted on 10/17/2002 9:44 AM PDT by keri
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To: MJY1288

I totally agree.

86 posted on 10/17/2002 9:50 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: MJY1288

But just as we must consider Saddam's counter punch, He has to worry about our response to an attack of that magnitude carried out here in this country. Saddam is most definitely a nutcase, but he is not suicidal.

Anthrax was fundamental to the events of both 2001 and 1991, only it's not polite to talk about it in public. Here's how to understand those events correctly:

It is protection for Saddam to have biological and chemical weapons, because, in the final analysis, if pressed, if he is surrounded in Baghdad, he will threaten to use them. He's capable of that. This is a sort of Samson complex--if you push me too hard, I'll bring the house down, on myself and on everyone else. Washington realizes that this is a possibility. For obvious reasons, it's not talked about openly. No one in Washington wants to tell the American people that Saddam is still capable of blackmailing us. They're acting as if he is capable of blackmailing them, but they are not going to admit it openly.

Interview with Said Aburish, author of Saddam Huseein: The Politics of Revenge
PBS Frontline:
"The Survival of Saddam", broadcast January 2000


87 posted on 10/17/2002 12:46 PM PDT by The Great Satan
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Comment #88 Removed by Moderator

To: keri; Nogbad

Thanks for the references to the August issue of Nature, keri. I'll have to look them up.

It is becoming clear, at least to me, the only way to counter the up and coming use of genetically engineered and vaccine resistant microbes is to develop effective treatments.

I think that has to be part of it, but that can't be our whole defense, since it's iffy in any particular case. I think it has to be combined with military solutions: preemption (active searches for and destruction of biowarfare programs that are potential threats) and deterrence (a commitment to identify any attacker, if at all possible, and then to retaliate).

89 posted on 10/18/2002 7:47 PM PDT by Mitchell
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To: Mitchell

Absolutely, Mitchell.

90 posted on 10/18/2002 10:08 PM PDT by keri
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To: keri; Nogbad

The thing is that there really is no direct solution to the problem. As technology advances, it's always making yet more power available at yet lower cost. That's the story of WMD.

One long-term way of living with this problem may be the geographic dispersal of the populace. The concentration of people in large cities will end. Technology makes that possible too. But biological weapons are particularly difficult to deal with. [In the long run, space colonization will be necessary to help protect the species against planetary-sized disasters.]

I think we'll only see the beginning of this in our lifetime, but I think that's the way things are headed. For now, we're just at the beginning of the trend, and we can buy quite a bit of time through concerted action, probably enough time for us. I'm guessing that things will be starting to look very different in just two or three generations, however.

91 posted on 10/18/2002 11:31 PM PDT by Mitchell
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BREAKING - South Korean newspapers report North Korean nuclear test
      Posted by The Great Satan to Diogenesis
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 11:14 PM PDT #172 of 260

From AndrewSullivan.com:
TO REMEMBER: "North Korea cannot be allowed to develop a nuclear bomb. We have to be very firm about it." - Bill Clinton, "Meet the Press," Nov. 7, 1993.

VON HOFFMAN AWARD NOMINEE I: "Diplomacy with North Korea has scored a resounding triumph. Monday's draft agreement freezing and then dismantling North Korea's nuclear program should bring to an end two years of international anxiety and put to rest widespread fears that an unpredictable nation might provoke nuclear disaster.
The U.S. negotiator Robert Gallucci and his North Korean interlocutors have drawn up a detailed road map of reciprocal steps that both sides accepted despite deep mutual suspicion. In so doing they have defied impatient hawks and other skeptics who accused the Clinton Administration of gullibility and urged swifter, stronger action. The North has agreed first to freeze its nuclear program in return for U.S. diplomatic recognition and oil from Japan and other countries to meet its energy needs. Pyongyang will then begin to roll back that program as an American-led consortium replaces the North's nuclear reactors with two new ones that are much less able to be used for bomb-making. At that time, the North will also allow special inspections of its nuclear waste sites, which could help determine how much plutonium it had extracted from spent fuel in the past." - The New York Times, wrong yet again, October 19, 1994. (The Von Hoffman Award is named after famed commentator Nick von Hoffman who boldly predicted the collapse of the Afghan campaign the week Kabul fell. It's for truly bad judgment or prediction among the punditocracy.)

ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY: Now check the Times'
editorial today. Not even a hint of their previous misjudgment. Just another piece of pabulum calling for more diplomacy. No criticism whatsoever of those who negotiated this deal and helped bring another nuclear rogue state into being. They even say this gives some ammunition to the Iraq "doves," who "will say this gives the lie to the administration's argument that Iraq is uniquely dangerous." Please. Don't the Times' editorialists owe their readers some kind of argument as to why they were wrong when this deal was originally signed? Hey, guys. We have Nexis now.

VON HOFFMAN AWARD NOMINEE II: Here's what the Clinton administration's top negotiator with North Korea told Jim Lehrer last January about president Bush's policy toward North Korea:

JIM LEHRER: What about the idea that the President laying the law down to them, calling them and putting them in the same league with Iraq and Iran and calling them part of this axis of evil helps the situation or hurts it? Do you feel like it helps?

WENDY SHERMAN: I don't think it was particularly helpful.

JIM LEHRER: Why not?

WENDY SHERMAN: It was very understandable as a rhetorical device to rally the American people to cause against terrorism and to the cause against weapons of mass destruction, which none of us want. What I think was wrong about it in terms of North Korea is North Korea has negotiated successfully with us. We have a 1994 framework agreement that stops the production of fissile material, which is the plutonium, the kind of plutonium needed to build nuclear weapons. They agreed to that framework agreement. They have principally kept to that agreement and taken the steps that were necessary for it to take. It's not finished yet. We still have a ways to go, but they do and can follow through. We need to hold them to it. Our agreements have to be verifiable. They need to be tough but it can be done.
"They do and can follow through." Says it all, doesn't it?

ON THE OTHER HAND: There were some people who clearly saw the scam that was the Carter-engineered, Clinton-signed group-hug with the North Koreans. Here's John McCain, the same day the Times came out hailing the Clinton deal:
On at least eight previous occasions, North Korea has lied to the Clinton Administration. With this agreement, Administration officials have willingly acquiesced in Pyongyang's almost certain further deception. Yet again, the Administration has mistaken resolving the North Korean nuclear crisis with merely postponing its apogee. ...I suspect that the Administration's willlingness to delay the resolution of this crisis is premised on their presumption that the bankrupt North Korean economy will force the regime's collapse before they violate the agreement. Unfortunately, their economy may be salvaged during the interim period by the hallf a billion tons of oil they will receive annually, the opening of trade relations with the U.S., and greater trade with its Asian neighbors, which the agreement [provides for]. Thus, the Administration has accomplished the remarkable feat of allowing the North Koreans to have their carrot cake and eat it too.
Hmmm. And what does McCain say about Iraq today?

"DANGEROUSLY WEAK": This is clearly a suck-up to my friend Charles Krauthammer. But, hey, he deserves it. This is what he said about Clinton's North Korea deal at the time:
(1) The NPT is dead. North Korea broke it and got a huge payoff from the United States not for returning to it but for pretending to. Its nuclear program proceeds unmolested. In Tehran and Tripoli and Baghdad the message is received: Nonproliferation means nothing. (2) The IAEA, if it goes along with this sham, is corrupted beyond redemption. It is supposed to be an impartial referee blowing the whistle on proliferators. Yet if Washington does not want to hear the whistle, the IAEA can be bullied into silence. (3) American credibility - not very high after Clinton's about-faces in Bosnia, Somalia and Haiti - sinks to a new low. This is a president easily cowed and dangerously weak. Said one government official to the New York Times, "It's one of these cases where the administration was huffing and puffing and backed down." Better though, said another, than "falling on our own sword over phony principle." If nonproliferation, so earnestly trumpeted by this president, is a phony principle, then where do we look for this president's real principles? This administration would not recognize a foreign policy principle, phony or otherwise, if it tripped over one in the street. The State Department, mixing cravenness with cynicism, calls this capitulation "very good news." For Kim Il Sung, certainly. For us, the deal is worse than dangerous. It is shameful.
Man, was he right. And what is his position today on Iraq?


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Interview with Roger Clinton on his Pyongyang visit
      Posted by The Great Satan to SEA
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 10:51 PM PDT #6 of 7

"North Korea cannot be allowed to develop a nuclear bomb. We have to be very firm about it." - Bill Clinton, "Meet the Press," Nov. 7, 1993.

AndrewSullivan.com


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Interview with Roger Clinton on his Pyongyang visit
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 10/17/2002 10:41 PM PDT with 6 comments


Korea-NP ^ | 12/15/99
Here is an interview with Roger Clinton, U.S. President Clinton's brother, who visited north Korea from Dec. 2 to 8 with his band members to take part in a north-south joint concert. It was interviewed in Pyongyang.   Q. How do you think of the meaning of your music concert at Pyongyang, be held in a situation that the country and the U.S. are in hostile relations?   A. I have taken a means of music to promote better understanding and exchanges between the two countries. I think the Pyongyang concert was of great significance for restoring peace to the...
     
 
Who Bombed Bali?
      Posted by The Great Satan to Salman
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 10:30 PM PDT #6 of 6

Who Bombed Bali?

Muslims.


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al-Qaeda may turn to Iraq
      Posted by The Great Satan to knak
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 10:28 PM PDT #3 of 4

LOL! It's CYA time for the American most responsible for 9-11, after clown-prince billyjeff himself.

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The Ostrich Position: European anti-Americanism reflects a deeper malaise.
      Posted by The Great Satan to liberallarry
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 9:42 PM PDT #33 of 35

Maybe the depression of the '30s was so bad due to an accumulation of things. Maybe it was a result of the world-wide integration of the economy.

Unlikely. Highly distributed economic systems provide greater scope for capital reallocation in the event of large-scale malinvestment, while simultaneously buffering random-walk behaviour and seasonal cycles characteristic of subordinate economic sectors. All other things being equal, cyclic behaviour and uncontrolled feedback effects are more pronounced the smaller and more closed the system.

Maybe it was the result of the unrestrained and unregulated boom of the '20s.

What caused that boom? Did it have anything to do with soft money? What made the money "soft"? Did that have anything to do with the Federal Reserve Act and government "reformers" attempt to "fix" the financial system?

Maybe it was due to Smoot-Hawley. Maybe to an uninformed and misguided response of the monetary authorities.

Those would be two concrete examples of the federal government screwing things up, certainly.


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The Ostrich Position: European anti-Americanism reflects a deeper malaise.
      Posted by The Great Satan to liberallarry
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 8:47 PM PDT #31 of 35

Post hoc - ergo propter hoc. That's your proof. Why should I take it seriously?

I didn't say it was proof. It is merely prima facie evidence that government intervention to "rescue" the banking system had the exact opposite effect to it's stated purpose. Before the government intervened to "fix" things, there was never an economic crisis on the scale of the Great Depression. Within sixteen years of the "fix," the whole system went to hell in a handbasket. Whatever else you can say, that doesn't speak well for the wisdom of government meddling in the economy, does it?


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The Ostrich Position: European anti-Americanism reflects a deeper malaise.
      Posted by The Great Satan to liberallarry
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 5:34 PM PDT #24 of 35

How in the world can you compare their motives or actions to anything Hitler did?

You were the one who suggested the Gold Standard: they all "meant well."


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The Ostrich Position: European anti-Americanism reflects a deeper malaise.
      Posted by The Great Satan to liberallarry
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 5:32 PM PDT #23 of 35

My liberal "airhead platitudes" are no worse and no better then your conservative, "rock-head proofs".

There you go again. You just can't help yourself, can you? Pure mush for brains. Remember, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.


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The Ostrich Position: European anti-Americanism reflects a deeper malaise.
      Posted by The Great Satan to liberallarry
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 5:07 PM PDT #19 of 35

It all depends on your point of view.

Got any more gassy liberal airhead platitudes you'd like to post before we move on?


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The Ostrich Position: European anti-Americanism reflects a deeper malaise.
      Posted by The Great Satan to liberallarry
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 5:06 PM PDT #18 of 35

It is not legitimate to criticize them for acting as they thought best.

In other words, "they meant well." So, what? Hitler "meant well." "Meant well" doesn't count for squat.


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Journalists From Major Media Outlets Take Iraqi "Election" Seriously (Moron Alert!)
      Posted by The Great Satan to PJ-Comix
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 4:48 PM PDT #6 of 9

HOW SADDAM MANIPULATES THE U.S. MEDIA

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The Ostrich Position: European anti-Americanism reflects a deeper malaise.
      Posted by The Great Satan to liberallarry
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 4:38 PM PDT #15 of 35

But the article asserts that the great Depression of the '30s (and by analogy all depressions) would have been shorter if the government had simply stayed out of it. That's completely unproven. It's just as likely that there would have been civil war and revolution.

Well, it is certainly prima facie interesting that the United States suffered by far it's worst ever economic crisis just sixteen years after the federal government passed the Federal Reserve Act, supposedly to abolish economic crises. There is a lesson in there somewhere.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to MJY1288
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 12:46 PM PDT #87 of 91

But just as we must consider Saddam's counter punch, He has to worry about our response to an attack of that magnitude carried out here in this country. Saddam is most definitely a nutcase, but he is not suicidal.

Anthrax was fundamental to the events of both 2001 and 1991, only it's not polite to talk about it in public. Here's how to understand those events correctly:

It is protection for Saddam to have biological and chemical weapons, because, in the final analysis, if pressed, if he is surrounded in Baghdad, he will threaten to use them. He's capable of that. This is a sort of Samson complex--if you push me too hard, I'll bring the house down, on myself and on everyone else. Washington realizes that this is a possibility. For obvious reasons, it's not talked about openly. No one in Washington wants to tell the American people that Saddam is still capable of blackmailing us. They're acting as if he is capable of blackmailing them, but they are not going to admit it openly.

Interview with Said Aburish, author of Saddam Huseein: The Politics of Revenge
PBS Frontline:
"The Survival of Saddam", broadcast January 2000



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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Stavka2
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 2:13 AM PDT #74 of 91

Great. Let's be optimistic and assume Saddam cheaps out on the $500 plasmid resistance kit. What then? Maybe 12 hours after the morning rush-hour, medics on night shift at St. Vincents note a disturbing number of people checking in with respiratory problems. At this point, maybe 25% of the 4 million subways riders exposed to a lethal dose of the anthrax are unsalvageable -- they will die in 7-14 days, irrespective of treatment. Another 75% -- three million people -- are still salvageable. Mayor Bloomberg is alerted. He confers with his aides, knowing that if he goes public, the entire city will dissolve into chaos. They hold-off on an announcement for another couple of hours, consigning perhaps another 5% of the exposed subway riders to certain death. The NY1 News Channel announces that an anthrax dispersal in the subway system is now considered a certainty: all subway lines and boroughs are affected. Everyone knows that they have a window of perhaps 12 hours to start treatment, and that the people who get treatment in two hours will have a much better chance of living than those who start it in 12 hours.

You can write the rest of the scenario yourself.


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WAKE UP! THIS TERRORIST IS NO NATIVE
      Posted by The Great Satan to Mitchell
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 1:57 AM PDT #12 of 73

there isn't enough evidence yet in my view even to reach a tentative conclusion as to whether it's a domestic nut or a foreign terrorist.

Concur.


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WAKE UP! THIS TERRORIST IS NO NATIVE
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 1:04 AM PDT #7 of 73

I asked Livingstone about the tarot card and the note left which said "Dear Policeman, I am God." "This guy is like someone pretending to be a disordered mind," he said.

America, what a country. "Dear Policeman, I am God" tells us we're dealing with a Muslim fanatic trying to sound like a crazy serial killer, and "Death to America Death to Israel Allah is Great" is a clue that we're dealing with a lonely whiteboy scientist pretending to be a Muslim fanatic. Such a lot of silliness.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 0:51 AM PDT #71 of 91

Something like that.

Trouble is, the Saddam-al Qaeda alliance is absolutely golden for both parties. These martyrdom boys are like attack dogs, straining at the leash. Using them as delivery systems circumvents all the problems of having to rely on self-interested military types, who might be bribed or intimidated by the threat of War Crimes trials. On our side, we have a very powerful factor: everybody knows we are going to win, if we put our minds to it. But the advent of the suicide bomber, a development which Saddam has openly nurtured in his war against Israel, represents a military breakthrough comparable to the invention of the ICBM. Mate these human missiles to aerosolizable anthrax, with an e-mail control system, and you have a deterrent every bit as effective as our nukes.

Saddam has spent his whole life pursuing new methods of physical intimidation -- new forms of torture, nerve gas, mustard gas, biological agents, superguns, 800 kV tripwires, ballistic missiles, nuclear weapons, suicide bombers, and so forth. This is his life work, because very early on in life he figured out that the ability to inflict pain on his opponents was the way to get ahead. He's creative in this sense -- he thinks outside the box -- and we are only now coming to terms with the consequences of that.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 0:40 AM PDT #70 of 91

Question for TGS: Can the new treatments coming "soon" for anthrax defeat a bio-engineered strain? If not, does waiting for them to become available do us any good?

"Bioengineering" encompasses a lot of possibilities. Simple addition of resistance plasmids, which Saddam could do with a $500 commercial transformation kit, would nullify the effects of common antibiotics. However, resistance plasmids are no good against vaccines. The older vaccine used by the Army (produced explicitly to defend against Saddam's anthrax, incidentally) or the vaccine now under development for civilian use should both be effective against natural anthrax strains, regardless of their antibiotic resistance. In my view, it is unlikely the Saddam has now or will have in the near future a genetically-engineered anthrax that can neutralize the vaccine. However, that could change if things stretch out too long, which is why Bush can't be too patient.

One important point which I have not been able to get a straight answer on is whether resistance plasmids exist for newer antibiotics like Cipro. I'm not too hopeful about that, but if it were the case, you could put together an effective defense based solely on antibiotics. I think it's a moot point, anyway, because we are nowhere near having the infrastructure in place to distribute them in a timely fashion in the event of a mass release. Probably, by the time that kind of civil defense infrastructure is in place, we'll already have, or be close to having, the vaccine on hand. So, if I were in Bush's shoes, I'd certainly string things out until we have the new vaccine, at least. And I think that's exactly what's going to happen, and all the chest thumpers are going to be disappointed again, just as they have been time and again over the last year, at the pace at which things progress. Fortunately, the guy running the show is handling this in a judicious fashion. I don't think we're going to see any sudden moves out of Bush. My bigger concern is whether Saddam has anything up his sleave. The Bali attack is somewhat disturbing in that regard.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to ganesha
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 0:23 AM PDT #67 of 91

The guy is an idiot. A tiny fraction of a gramme of weaponized anthrax accidently seeping through a taped-up envelope killed four people last year, and that anthrax wasn't even transformed with resistance plasmids. Decontamination of the Hart Office building, where an envelope of this stuff was opened, took one year and cost $20 milliom. Use your common sense. Imagine what a breifcase full of the same powder -- i.e. at least a 100,000 times as much as killed those four people -- would do if dispersed through the NYC subway system. Then imagine 19 sleeper agents doing the same thing in other mass-transit oriented cities here, in Europe and Australia. Care to estimate the death toll and the economic cost? Care to imagine what would happen to New York City economically if the subway was shut down for even 12 months?

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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 10/17/2002 0:14 AM PDT #64 of 91

I think Bush is going to go ahead, and take Saddam's best return shot.

Bush is going to go ahead with something, but what that something is I can only guess (I have a few notions, which I've posted elsewhere). Whatever that something is will involve a very slow buildup, IMO. Bush is in no hurry to back Saddam into a corner -- wouldn't be prudent -- and that has certainly been born out by the pace of events to date. I think the next Presidential Election represents one natural constraint -- although even that could be breached, if the alternative is taking millions of casualties and the total economic loss of our major East Coast cities. A ten-year time frame is not acceptable however -- too many unknowns, involving proxy terror operations, alliances with the likes of Cuba or North Korea, unstoppable, genetically-engineered bioweapons, etc.

The best bet seems to me to go all out on the new vaccine, crank up capacity to the hundreds of millions of doses, make sure it's pre-distributed to every pharmacy in the Western world, push hard on mass-producable biosensors for subways and the like, all the while "isolating" Saddam in every way possible: militarily, economically and politically. If he doesn't fold his hand and take exile, go for the jugular sometime in 2004, when we have a reasonable shot at blunting any doomsday retaliation. It's far from a surefire plan, but I don't see any better alternatives.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Stavka2
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 11:51 PM PDT #54 of 91

By the time 100,000 people came down with respiratory symptoms, most of the people exposed would be as good as dead anyway, even on the optimistic assumption of a susceptible strain (i.e. Saddam cheaped out on that $500 plasmid transformation kit).

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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Stavka2
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 11:48 PM PDT #53 of 91

..and adding resistence is not that easy....otherwise, the guy who did the letters would have done it himself, I'm sure he can afford $500.

Why would he want to that? He wants to stick around, right? This is not an attack, remember? Did that point sink in yet to my mush-for-brains interlocutor?


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Stavka2
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 11:46 PM PDT #51 of 91

And when will all this stuff be ready?

On a more positive note, Bush is not sitting on his hands. You know he never really believed the cover story about a "right-wing rogue scientist" sending the anthrax letters, right? I hope you weren't dumb enough to fall for that story, at least. Anyway, last April the US government put out a Request For Proposal for a new "morning after" anthrax vaccine to treat the public, with a mooted initial order of 25 million doses once it passes safety. The contract was awarded earlier this month. Safety trials on the vaccine should be complete by the end of 2003 if everything goes according to schedule, so I assume we could have stockpiles on hand sufficient to handle at least a couple of simultaneous big city attacks by early 2004 (25 million doses is enough to treat eight million people, and the number of people potentially exposed in an NYC subway release could be up to 4 million).

Now, that still leaves open several questions, e.g. can the vaccine be delivered to enough people in time to be effective? Can the civil order be maintained in a post-attack scenario? Can the vaccine be delivered promptly to our allies? Will there be enough vaccine to deal with multiple, simultaneous sleeper attacks, say on London, Berlin, Paris, New York, DC, Boston, Sydney, etc.? And so on. So, there are still a number of unanswered questions there, but at least some of that work can be done in parallel.

Bush has warned Saddam, "I am a very patient man." But that's also a warning to us -- don't expect Saddam to be gone any time soon. Unless we get a lucky break and he decides to take exile (as, behind the scenes, we are imploring him to do), he will be there for some time to come.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 11:31 PM PDT #42 of 91

Personally, I think a major reason the French and Germans have cut and run is that they are afraid.

Of course they're afraid. Even before we get to the end-game, they're will be plenty of lesser scale attacks on soft targets by that famous "loose-knit network of Islamic militants" to send Saddam's message to our allies. (Wait a minute, I thought Saddam and the Islamic fundamentalists are bitter enemies who would never work together. I read it in the New York Times, so it must be true. LOL!)

Australia: Abu Bakar warns PM against Iraq war


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to MJY1288
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 11:23 PM PDT #40 of 91

Please explain how Saddam or anyone else can deliver a massive anthrax attack?

Guess you weren't watching TV on September 11, 2001. Funny, it was in all the papers, too. I can't imagine how you missed it -- unless it just didn't register, for some reason.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to SoCal Pubbie
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 11:22 PM PDT #39 of 91

Dream on. BTW, were you one of the idiots who was predicting we'd be going in on October 6, because of the "New Moon"? There have been so many delusional posts of that nature on this forum over the last year, it's hard to keep track. Oh, yeah, when's the next New Moon? Shh! Don't tell Saddam! He'll be crapping his pants. Not!

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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to home educate
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 11:19 PM PDT #37 of 91

And your solution is?

I don't have one. Do you? I'm sure George Bush would be grateful for any suggestions.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to MJY1288
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 11:12 PM PDT #34 of 91

I don't subscribe to your defeatist atitude.

I'm more interested in comprehending reality than getting in touch with my emotions. Sorry -- I know that's a difficult concept for products of progressive education to grasp. It doesn't matter what you want to believe because, in the end, real forces trump wishful thinking.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Stavka2
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 11:07 PM PDT #32 of 91

why haven't tens of thousands died from the letters?

Uh, because the letters were threats, not attacks, dummy. You still haven't figured that out, after a year? What kind of mush do you use for brains? "THIS IS NEXT WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US." What part of this message don't you understand?


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Stavka2
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 11:05 PM PDT #31 of 91

First of all, you don't need to vacinate against anthrax, most antibiotics will kill it. Secondly, you need to inhale it or have it settle on open sours in very high dosages...why you don't hear about to many anthrax outbreaks.

Adding antibiotic resistance to bacteria is a trivial exercise. I do it routinely in the lab. You can do it with it a kit that costs about $500. But it doesn't matter, anyway. Inhale a significant bolus and it's all over if you don't get treatment in 24 hours, and your chances aren't close to 100% even if you get treated sooner than that. In a mass dispersal, literally millions of people would have be treated on a 24-hour timescale -- never mind the inevitable collapse of the civil order, as people hear the death clock ticking and scramble to cut out their friends and neighbors in the rush for treatment.

And, no, you don't hear of many huge anthrax outbreaks naturally, because anthrax isn't normally weaponized. Dump a briefcase full of the anthrax powder sent to Daschle on the NYC subway tracks, however, and you can kiss Manhattan goodbye. At minimum, the same goes for any of city whose economy depends on underground mass transit.

Sorry to break it to you but, like everyone else, you've been living in La-La Land in regard to this threat. The person who thought up 9-11 was very smart, very ruthless, very patient, and knew exactly what he was doing. If you think the back-end security was left to chance, well, I got news for you -- you're in for a nasty surprise.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to MJY1288
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 10:51 PM PDT #25 of 91

Niether are nukes, So what's your point :-)

Your analogy is precisely correct. So the point is, Saddam is laughing. With 9-11, he pulled off the sweetest, most artistic act of revenge in human history, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. No wonder Saddam's looking so chipper these days.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to MJY1288
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 10:41 PM PDT #18 of 91

Problem is, the anthrax isn't meant to be used. The first strike already happened, on 9-11, and the perp is very happy with the results. The anthrax is just to make sure we don't hit him back. Ever wondered why Saddam isn't even breaking a sweat, even though he's been publicly targeted for destruction by the most powerful nation in the world? The answer begins with "A" and ends with "X."

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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Mike Darancette
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 10:30 PM PDT #15 of 91

Again, that doesn't matter. This idea that smallpox is a more serious threat because it is infectious is simply a vulgar mistake.

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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope; Travis McGee; cicero's_son; Mitchell; Nogbad
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 10:26 PM PDT #13 of 91

fyi

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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Northpaw
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 10:25 PM PDT #12 of 91

Concerns rise about Iraq's options for retaliation

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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Northpaw
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 10:23 PM PDT #11 of 91



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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Mike Darancette
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 10:22 PM PDT #10 of 91

The likely repercussions of a modest-sized release of anthrax into a city are profound and frightening. Hospitals would probably begin to see patients with high fever 3 to 4 days after exposure but it would almost certainly be too late for antibiotic therapy by the time the patients were seen. No emergency room physicians have ever seen a case of inhalation anthrax and medical laboratories have practically no experience with its diagnosis. All patients would die within 24 to 48 hours, and it would be at least 3 to 5 days before a conclusive diagnosis could be made.

Once an anthrax outbreak was diagnosed, the task would be far from complete. Currently, little anthrax vaccine is available and there are no plans for its civilian use. If it were decided to administer antibiotics, two questions need to be answered: How wide an area of people to treat, and what amount of antibiotics would that require. Distinguishing symptoms of anthrax, which could be lethal in a day, from flu or common cold features would be another complication.

Hypothetical studies of anthrax use as a biological weapon have also revealed disconcerting results. One study predicted that release of anthrax into the New York subway during rush hour would cause 10,000 deaths. The World Health Organization estimated that 50 kg of B. anthracis released upwind of a population of 500,000 would result in up to 95,000 deaths and an additional 125,000 people incapacitated. The first responders to an attack would probably be emergency room workers or other health care personnel. Inexperience with anthrax and other biological weapons, leaves us vulnerable and ill-prepared to deal with a bioterrorist attack.



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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to cpdiii
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 10:18 PM PDT #9 of 91

A recent study of terrorist WMD attacks by the RAND Institute identified anthrax as the most deadly threat:
In a worst-case scenario, a nuclear or chemical attack in San Francisco, San Diego or Los Angeles would kill as many as 80,000 people. But 220 pounds of anthrax, if properly dispersed under optimum conditions, would cover 180 square miles. Deaths could reach in the millions.

A chilling `what if' study on terrorist attacks


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to Mike Darancette
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 10:12 PM PDT #8 of 91

There are worse bugs such as smallpox.

You couldn't be more wrong. Simulations of smallpox attacks, even involving aerosolized dispersal, indicate casualties in the hundreds to thousands before the spread of the contagion is contained. The much publicized "Dark Winter" study, which predicted a worst-case smallpox scenario of 1 million dead, is based on the already outdated assumption that vaccine is unavailable. Simulations of anthrax dispersals, OTOH, routinely come up with death tolls in the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions.



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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to cpdiii
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 10:05 PM PDT #5 of 91

If the government has policies and infrastructure in place to quickly distribute millions of doses of antibiotics the death rate will be low.

Even if the attack strain were susceptible to antibiotics, and even if enough antibiotics were on hand, and even if the attack was recognized early enough, and even if several million people could be treated in the space of 24 hours (all highly dubious assumptions), the death toll would still be enormous -- far in excess of anything that could be produced by a suitcase nuke attack, for example.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan to cpdiii
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 10:00 PM PDT #3 of 91

"No one is going to stay put for 24 hours if something like this occurs, and everyone is going to seek medical attention," said Suzanne Mencer, director of the Colorado Office of Homeland Security.

Uh, how are they supposed to know they've been anthraxed before it's too late?


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North Korea Admits Nuclear Weapons Program
      Posted by The Great Satan to Brytani
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 9:56 PM PDT #254 of 346

North Korea to Get Almost $2B in Benefits from Nuclear Deal

By Jim Mann
Los Angeles Times
WASHINGTON

The Clinton administration revealed Thursday that under the agreement it recently signed with North Korea, the Pyongyang government will get nearly $2 billion in benefits before it has to submit to special international inspections of its nuclear program.

South Korea will contribute most of the money by supplying the equipment for new nuclear reactors which make it much harder for North Korea to make weapons-grade fuel. However, Ambassador-at-large Robert Gallucci, the Clinton administration's top negotiator, also estimated that the costs to the United States will be "tens of millions of dollars."

The disclosures came at the first congressional hearing on the nuclear agreement. During the session, held by the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Asia, Republicans voiced considerable unhappiness about the deal the administration signed in Geneva in October.

"We seem to be giving up, virtually, on every front," complained Sen. Frank Murkowski, R-Alaska. He argued that the financial benefits North Korea are to receive will serve to "prop up" the impoverished Pyongyang government, so that it will be less susceptible to the threat of international economic sanctions.

The Clinton administration began negotiating with North Korea last year, after it refused to submit to the International Atomic Energy Agency's demand to carry out special inspections of two waste sites. Those inspections could show how much weapons-grade fuel North Korea produced in the past.

Under the deal, North Korea does not have to submit to the special inspections for approximately five years - until after "a significant portion" of the work is finished for the new nuclear reactors. Gallucci said that work was worth nearly $2 billion. North Korea will not get any of the key components for the reactors, however, until the special inspections are carried out.


Copyright 1994,95, The Tech. All rights reserved.
This story was published on December 2, 1994.
Volume 114, Number 60.
This story appeared on page 3.

This article may be freely distributed electronically, provided it is distributed in its entirety and includes this notice, but may not be reprinted without the express written permission of The Tech. Write to archive@the-tech.mit.edu for additional details.


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Simulated Anthrax Attack On Denver 'Kills' 500,000
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 10/16/2002 9:48 PM PDT with 90 comments


Associated Press ^ | October 15, 2002
DENVER -- A worst-case scenario from a computer-simulated anthrax attack over the Denver area concludes that more than 500,000 Coloradans could die. The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank in Washington, D.C., obtained the computer modeling software from the Defense Department and its researchers simulated various scenarios. In one simulation described at a homeland security conference in Colorado Springs, terrorists in a small airplane release 440 pounds of military-grade powdered anthrax over downtown Denver. The result? Over the next 24 hours, the spores blow 126 miles eastward and expose more than 812,000 people. Between 447,000 and 591,000 of the victims...
     
 
In for the long haul
      Posted by The Great Satan to Utah Girl
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 5:29 PM PDT #4 of 5

Like Ronald Reagan, Bush's air of nonchalance is deceiving. Without breaking a sweat, he put the threat of Saddam squarely on the table and, slowly but surely, bent others to his will.

It doesn't impress me much that Bush isn''t breaking a sweat. The United States is, by a very wide margin, the most powerful nation on earth -- militarily, the most powerful nation in human history. What I find more noteworthy is that Saddam Hussein isn't breaking a sweat, even though the most powerful man on earth has publicly targeted him for destruction. Not only is he not breaking a sweat, but he is still publicly endorsing the 9/11 attacks and praising the leadership of the supposed mastermind of that operation, Osama bin Laden. Now that is interesting, isn't it?


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Now what in Iraq? (Very Disturbing)
      Posted by The Great Satan to Cobra Scott
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 5:14 PM PDT #63 of 65

I firmly believe he will attempt to orchestrate a confrontation between his troops and US forces, if only to slow us down momentarily and commit our boots, and then gas them all with mustard.

Oh, please. He's not stupid. His insurance is the threatened destruction of New York, Washington, DC, Boston, Philadelphia, etc., not some silly poison gas attack on US troops. But, I agree, it's much nicer to pretend that troops will be his targets, rather than contemplate the alternative.


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Now what in Iraq? (Very Disturbing)
      Posted by The Great Satan to Korth
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 1:35 PM PDT #58 of 65

Militarily, Iraq will be a cake walk for the US. Saddam understands this. He's put all his eggs in one basket: the threat to anthrax the civilian population of the US and its allies. Unfortunately, that's a pretty good plan.

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Carnahan apologizes for bin Laden remark
      Posted by The Great Satan to show me state
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 1:28 PM PDT #2 of 49

Bye-bye, Jean. Hello Senate control.

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Bush: Israel to Respond if Attacked
      Posted by The Great Satan to veronica
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 1:27 PM PDT #20 of 154

The Iraqi people would be wise to rid themselves of Saddam ASAP. Failing that, they might want to consider evacuating their cities and heading for the hills.

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Live Thread: Gore on Sixty Minutes (12/15/02)

GOTTA SEE THIS - WarEndur . Freedom 12 / 16 / 02 - Al - Khadra , Baghdad , Jurf Sakhr , Youssefiyeh , Kuwait , Qatar

BULLETIN: Al Gore WILL NOT RUN IN 2004

Latella calls for Rickles as Senate Majority Leader

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Don Nickles Calls for New Senate Leadership Election to Challenge Lott

Israel bans Arafat from Bethlehem Christmas celebrations

Sunday Morning Talk Show Thread 15 Dec 2002

Live thread: Al Gore on SNL

Egypt arrests al-Qaida official; Islamic activists dispute claim (media coordinator Abdel Maqsoud)

Bush widens authority of CIA to kill terrorists

Syrians 'smuggling arms to Baghdad'

TERROR OF BIN LADEN'S 20 BACKPACK NUKES developing

Former Israeli PM: We're in a World War, Many civilians may die, but we have to win

Mother of accused sniper deported

N. Korea Says It's Unilateral Removing I.A.E.A. Nuke Plant Surveillance Cameras at Once (Breaking)

GOTTA SEE THIS - WarEndur . Freedom 12 / 15 / 02 - Gedera , Hebron , Jenin , Khan Younis,Rishon Lezion,Tel Aviv

Jordan arrests two suspected al-Qaeda members involved in assassination of U.S. diplomat

Bush Signals He Thinks Possibility of Smallpox Attack Is Rising

Transport Secretariat calls for ban on U.S. trucks in Mexico (NAFTA)

S.Koreans in candlelit protest over U.S. military pact

Police Discover Body Believed to be Missing Child

Operation Infinite FReep in Fresno, CA (12-13-02)

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Alberta uprising feared

Man charged with contempt for obscene message on check

Green Wealth, Animal Rights Riches

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Syrian pipeline helps Iraq evade UN oil sanctions (SOME EXPLAINING TO DO ALERT)

Christmas is 'cancelled' in Bethlehem

Sign of the Times-Prep Yearbook Staff Votes to Include 2 Girls As 'Cutest Couple,' Students Walk Out

Saved by the (School) Bell (CA bonds= jobs)

Female teacher says sex with boy, 10, was consensual

Invitation to terrorism

Chrysler Sees Tough U.S. Market Ahead

Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.

Bosnia Serb Plavsic set for war crimes 'mea culpa'

Alarm bells ring at Fed (deflation alert)

Iraq Urges U.N. to Stop U.S.-British Air Strikes

Convicted Chechen warlord Raduyev dies in prison

Moscow criticizes Baghdad's decision to cancel oil contract with Russia's biggest oil company

PA Libel: Jewish Religion sees Arabs as subhuman

Christian-Right Zionism

Jimmy Carter, The Most Respected Man In America? Naaaah!....

Demi Dating Bill Clinton [Ex-POTUS Flacks Float Trial Baloon for Separation from Hillary in 2003]

Sean Penn Says War in Iraq Is Avoidable

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Mysore sex scandal: Resort owner pleads ignorance

In Foreign Parts: GI Janes flaunt their sports bras

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Rising from ruins of 9/11, a new transportation hub

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Autonomous vehicles to race L.A. to Las Vegas

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A Man Out of Time [The Landrieu-Lott political nexus]

Kidnappers demand $800 for return of Baby Jesus

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UK Boycott of work by Israeli scientists 'could cost lives'

Alexander critical of Lott's words (1st African - American Kelvin Moxley elected Vice Chair TN GOP)

Bill Offers Protection For Students Raised Here

Anti-Chavez Protesters Surround Tankers

Booming work at Cheney's house stirs neighbors

Iraq's Aziz calls Bush a "hypocrite" (i.e. a Christian warmonger)

CA: So far, prisons manage to duck the budget ax

CA,OR,WA: Feeling the full force - Intense rain, wind sweep the region

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We don't talk this way

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Econ 101: supply, demand and prayer

CANDID CAMERA: The media watchdog group comes to Chicago to tell Jews here "the real story"

American fatalism: US-consider diplomacy as first & last resort, look to Europe to see the wisdom

Ghosts of the Past

ROGER TOUSSAINT'S LOW MOMENT(MTA TRANSIT STRIKE)

Lott's sin is giving Dems ammo--so he must go

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GOP and racists? Thick as thieves (Mega Barf alert)

Sieve at Los Alamos

Lott not suitable as leader (CHICAGO 1ST DISTRICT BARFER!!!)

Leave Our Holidays Alone

The Flaw in using Smallpox as a Weapon

Lott was only spilling GOP's dirty little secret

Britain appeases a dictator

Charting a surer path to peace: If Israel escalates war against militant Islam, US should support it

NINTH CIRCUIT CLAIMS THERE IS NO RIGHT TO ARMS[Michael Bellesiles is used as sources!)

Jimmy Carter's Selective Memory

No Time for Colorblindness (Why We Need Affirmative Action)

Fashion And Ferment In Iran

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Gun Registry a boondoggle from the word go

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Announcements

Lott Should Seek Repentence as did Bill Clinton --( Cinton to receive weekly Spiritual Counseling )

USO Canteen FReeper Style~ Sunday Chapel ~ December 15 2002

Purple Heart recipients to be honored on new postage stamp in 2003

Boycott & Protest Rainbow Grocery, San Francisco, CA

Republicans Should not choose New York City as site of 2004 convention

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IT'S A BOY!!!

Texas Freeper Fieldtrip Report - Finally!

USO Canteen FReeper Style ~ Help Decorate the Canteen Christmas Tree ~ December 14 2002

Iraq Tourism Board (Book Your Vacation Now!)

Trailer for Civil War Movie Gods and Generals

WHEN CHRISTMAS BECOMES ILLEGAL

Prayer Request for freeper Jeff Head's father

TOYS FOR TOTS -- Christmas FReep REQUEST!!

Vacant Lott for Rent: The Trent Lott Press Conference Live Thread.

Why is NRA M.I.A. on Ninth Circuit Ruling?

Caption Time-Ol' Strom Thurmond Has Had Enough..Comes Out of Retirement After Trent Lott Uproar!

FREEP These Leftist Scrooges! (my title)

FREE REPUBLIC.COM, YOUR AL SHARPTON FOR PRESIDENT HEADQUARTERS! (Shameless Vanity)

I support Trent Lott, and so should you darnit!

Marine Corps' "Widow-Maker": Harrier Attack Jet (LA Times hit piece)

RECIPES FOR CHRISTMAS

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Free Republic

Smallpox and Quarentines

HAT FR Meeting Minutes (Saturday, 14 December 2002, Houston, TX)

Lott Looked Back

OJ Interviews New York Senator Hillary Rod'em Clinton

Saudi's Wage an Undeclared Economic War on the US

The [Warfare] Paradigm Shift [It has occured]

Sean Penn is going to Baghdad: below, name actors and places you'd like to send them, and state why

Vet's Memorial Cross defended by Bush and The National Park Service.

Black XIII: "Common Thread" ( SlixMUDZbeachhouse in Nags Head!!)

Rush On His Program Just Called Robert Byrd 'Sheets' On Air... ROTFLOL!!

France to open its first Islamic high school

Black students allegedly behind racist graffiti

History of FR

The Lott Problem & A Solution

If they censur Lott then they must censur Byrd

Curious Note Sent Home From School Today (moderate vanity)

The Lott Gaffe & A Whole Lot Liberal Media Bias

Nigerian email scam causes Americans to loiter in London hotel lobbies

Being Robert Byrd: Racial Entrepreneurs Remarkably Silent on this one

Lott Should Stay On ...

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Tribes of Gamblers

Piracy is Progressive Taxation, and Other Thoughts on the Evolution of Online Distribution

The coward Cummings was afraid to debate me on Urban Talk Radio

The Iraq-al Qaeda Connection

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Posts by The Great Satan Search

CPAC 2003 30th Annual Conservative Political Action Conference

Listing older posts; click here to list newest.

Bush: Israel to Respond if Attacked
      Posted by The Great Satan to veronica
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 1:23 PM PDT #14 of 154

Thank you, President Bush!

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Saddam's Economy of War: Why put up with sanctions, lose billions just to accumulate terror weapons
      Posted by The Great Satan to SJackson
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 1:01 PM PDT #7 of 7

Indeed, the possibility that we were being sized up for a larger anthrax assault is one Washington has preferred to ignore in pursuit of the rogue-scientist theory

Publicly, they ignored that possibility. Not so publicly, they ordered 25 million doses of anthrax vaccine to protect the civilian population. If you're very smart, you might be able to figure out the reason for the disconnect. And then you might understand the origin of the "rogue scientist" claptrap, and the real purpose of "Operation Amerithrax."


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Saddam's Economy of War: Why put up with sanctions, lose billions just to accumulate terror weapons
      Posted by The Great Satan to SJackson
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 12:54 PM PDT #6 of 7

He might easily mistake obsessive media coverage of events like the suburban D.C. sniper or last year's suspiciously experimental-looking anthrax attacks as evidence that the country is prone to dissolve in panic.

These idiots still don't get it, do they? Those weren't attacks. They were threats.

THIS IS NEXT
WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX
YOU CANNOT STOP US
What part of this is so hard to understand?


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Daschle's homeland-security blockade
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 10/16/2002 0:03 AM PDT #3 of 5

Privately, administration officials concede that their greatest concern is Daschle's "end game." What if he is backed into a corner, with loss of Senate control all but a fait accompli? "We are spending a lot of time on this," said one unnamed White House official. Once the game is up, will Daschle "lash out," in one last, desperate, no-holds-barred attempt to destroy America? The "Samson Option," senior Democrat officials confide, is increasingly the sub-text of DNC strategy meetings. Fearing the worst, administration officials are privately offering Daschle a face-saving out: a sinecure, perhaps in a new role as NASA Administrator, or Director of the National Endowment for the Arts. But, in the end, the Majority Leader remains a cipher. Will he put personal self-aggrandisement over a lifelong devotion to a fanatical left-wing creed? No one is willing to predict the outcome with certainty. For the moment, the future of America hangs in the balance.

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Experts: Al Zawahiri tape in al Jazeera triggered recent wave of attacks
      Posted by The Great Satan to RCW2001
On
News/Activism 10/15/2002 11:37 PM PDT #10 of 10

I have to laugh at this crap. There is nothing special about the words of Al-Zawhatsisname or Osama bin Laden (Deceased). They're just human beings: they don't have magic powers. The gating factor here is the technical capability to deliver these attacks. Because, when they have that capability, they are going to use it, never mind some silly e-mail. And when they don't, they won't.

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Attack likely attempt to draw Hindus into conflict
      Posted by The Great Satan to Ronin
On
News/Activism 10/15/2002 11:19 PM PDT #7 of 8

Oh, yeah. This elevator is going all the way to the bottom. Count on it.

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Attack likely attempt to draw Hindus into conflict
      Posted by The Great Satan to sheik yerbouty
On
News/Activism 10/15/2002 10:44 PM PDT #3 of 8

I'm for Athiests, Agnostics, Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists all clubbing together to wipe islam off the face of the earth. Sound like a plan?

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Clinton Warned on Bin Laden Hijack-Kamikaze Plot
      Posted by The Great Satan to callisto
On
News/Activism 10/15/2002 10:33 PM PDT #38 of 39

Uh, the guy who masterminded the successful 2001 WTC attack, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, was a close associate of Ramzi Yousef, the guy who organized the unsuccessful 1993 attempt to topple the WTC. We had eight years to pick this guy up, and we didn't do it. Talk about warnings. Talk about failure. That's about as bad as it gets.

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Still Living Dangerously
      Posted by The Great Satan to Utah Girl
On
News/Activism 10/15/2002 10:24 PM PDT #11 of 13

The real risk in the administration's PR approach, which to date has been a watered-down version of the Clinton administration's "loose network of Islamic whackos" mythology, is that it will allow Saddam Hussein to continue to wage war against the US through terrorist proxies without having to take the heat for it in the eyes of world opinion. This is exactly what Saddam wants, of course, and what he is counting on in the coming hot war. I realize that the American people may have a hard time dealing with the reality the we have been out-maneauvered by a two-bit punk we supposedly dispatched ten years ago. Unfortunately, the security-blanket myth of al-Qaeda may turn into a serious psychological handicap when the war with Saddam cranks up next year, and "sympathetic" terrorist outrages, possibly with WMD, become the staple of our daily news bulletins.

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Justin Raimondo Has His Say
      Posted by The Great Satan to quidnunc
On
News/Activism 10/15/2002 10:05 PM PDT #2 of 29

I think Justin has authority issues, something to do with Daddy. He's a homosexualist, you know.

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Col. Hackworth against Iraq invasion(huh?)-Hannity & Colmes
      Posted by The Great Satan to Diddle E. Squat
On
News/Activism 10/15/2002 4:47 PM PDT #55 of 86

Hackworth thinks that the armed forces are an encounter group for macho posturing and masculine self-esteem reinforcement therapy. It doesn't occur to him that soldiers are supposed to defend the country, which might actually involve getting killed.

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Bush Studied '67 Pre-emptive Strike
      Posted by The Great Satan to Lightnin
On
News/Activism 10/15/2002 4:41 PM PDT #15 of 26

Actually, he didn't -- but his college grades were better.

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Bush Studied '67 Pre-emptive Strike
      Posted by The Great Satan to Utah Girl
On
News/Activism 10/15/2002 4:38 PM PDT #11 of 26

I don't know if they fear a US victory, as much as they fear the unknown of what will follow.

What they fear is that the public will rally around the President, as they always do in wartime -- even during billyjeff's wag-the-dog war on behalf of the KLA -- and the Democratic Party will go into eclipse for the foreseeable future. That's the long and the short of it.


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Hil for Prez? Poll says no way
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 10/15/2002 4:11 AM PDT #9 of 17

Only seven out of ten? That's pretty scary!

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HOW WE'LL FIGHT
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 10/14/2002 12:17 PM PDT #21 of 34

Saddam Hussein has no chance whatsoever of defeating this new kind of army, and only the slimmest of chances of inflicting more than superficial losses on it.

Absolutely true, and Saddam understands this, of course. But he thinks "outside the box," as he demonstrated so spectacularly on 9/11/01. This whole operation was thought through with meticulous care, including the back-end security, obviously:

THIS IS NEXT
WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX
YOU CANNOT STOP US


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Poll: No 3rd Clinton Term
      Posted by The Great Satan to white trash redneck
On
News/Activism 10/14/2002 12:09 PM PDT #4 of 19

Hillary is staking her hopes on WMD attacks against the US during the Iraq campaign. She's hoping the public will blame Bush, and not her former co-President. Outside of that scenario, her prospects for grabbing more power look bleak indeed.

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Breaking CNN: statement attributed to bin Laden praises recent attacks
      Posted by The Great Satan to Nexus
On
News/Activism 10/14/2002 11:55 AM PDT #41 of 50

Here's a pic of Osama from his soon-to-be-released video. As you can see, the sheikh has put on a little weight owing to the lack of exercise equipment in his cave, but otherwise, he's the same ball-of-fire terrorist mastermind we know and love. Really!


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Outrage as Iraq views UK arms
      Posted by The Great Satan to Demidog
On
News/Activism 10/14/2002 11:33 AM PDT #192 of 209

You must be the last person in America to put any stock in the "Amerithrax" investigation. Haven't you noticed that everybody else has moved on?

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Outrage as Iraq views UK arms
      Posted by The Great Satan to Demidog
On
News/Activism 10/14/2002 11:26 AM PDT #189 of 209

From a US lab. That has already been established as fact there genius.

Oh, yeah. And when did this happen? I must have missed that news bulletin.


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Outrage as Iraq views UK arms
      Posted by The Great Satan to patrioticduty
On
News/Activism 10/14/2002 1:32 AM PDT #180 of 209

The jihadists didn't need Iraq to pull off September 11th

Oh, really? And where do think they got the anthrax? Do you think they brewed it up in a cave? Get real. No bunch of loonies living in a cave dreamed up 9/11. This one has Saddam's fingerprints all over it.


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Former Klansman vs. Rumsfeld
      Posted by The Great Satan to Asmodeus
On
News/Activism 10/13/2002 11:51 PM PDT #13 of 13

Oooh, E. coli! What were they thinking? Take a dump and get a clue.

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More than 200 Australians still missing
      Posted by The Great Satan to rickmichaels
On
News/Activism 10/13/2002 5:41 PM PDT #30 of 34

I haven't heard yet whether Kofi is "troubled" by this slaughter. If he is, no doubt the feeling will pass soon enough, like a gas attack. He'll be down on his knees again in no time, offering to fellate Saddam Hussein and lick Arafat's rump. He's gotta keep his eyes on that Nobel Peace Prize, don't you know?

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THE OKLAHOMA CITY -- 911 CONNECTION
      Posted by The Great Satan to stevem
On
News/Activism 10/13/2002 4:18 PM PDT #11 of 74

The part that I have never understood is why the Feds always have tried to swwep the entire thing under the rug.

The Feds take their lead from the guy in charge. Who was running the show back when this happened? 'Nuff said.


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Freeh's Statement on Who the Threat was in 1999
      Posted by The Great Satan to Maigret
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 12:03 PM PDT #6 of 7

Great catch! That quote explains a lot, doesn't it?

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I Got Helen Thomas to Hang Up on Me
      Posted by The Great Satan to doug from upland
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 11:54 AM PDT #5 of 83

Outstanding!

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Iraq: The Snare of Inspections
      Posted by The Great Satan to Valin
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 11:49 AM PDT #4 of 4

Good article, although the basic point should be pretty obvious to any intelligent person, anyway: inspections are meaningless. They didn't find anything the first time: they were about to give Saddam a clean bill of health, only Hussein Kamel, Saddam's son-in-law and director of his special weapons program, defected and spilled the beans on Saddam's huge anthrax and botulinum-based WMD program. Saddam does not even need to have an active program to blackmail the world: all he needs is a few hundred kilos of powdered, aerosolizable anthrax -- like the stuff he sent to Daschle after he demolished the WTC. That stuff keeps forever. It doesn't even need to be in Iraq. I know what I would do if I were Saddam. And my guess is, that's exactly what he has done.

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Concerns rise about Iraq's options for retaliation
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl; Howlin
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 3:06 AM PDT #6 of 18

America's foreign policy "experts" slowly figure out Saddam's secret plan to win.


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Concerns rise about Iraq's options for retaliation
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 3:03 AM PDT #4 of 18

One two is two.
Two twos are four.
Three twos are six...


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Concerns rise about Iraq's options for retaliation
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 3:02 AM PDT #3 of 18

I feel like I'm watching a bunch of retards putting together a jigsaw puzzle.

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Concerns rise about Iraq's options for retaliation
      Posted by The Great Satan to JohnHuang2
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 2:58 AM PDT #2 of 18

Duh, the penny drops, but still gets stuck half way. Like, where do these people think the anthrax came from? Outer Space?
THIS IS NEXT
WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX
YOU CANNOT STOP US


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U.S. Has a Plan to Occupy Iraq, Officials Report
      Posted by The Great Satan to powderhorn
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 2:21 AM PDT #8 of 13

Concur.

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Jimmy Carter awarded Nobel Peace Prize
      Posted by The Great Satan to HAL9000
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 2:08 AM PDT #8 of 195

Oh, well. At least it wasn't Osama bin Laden.

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COWARDS' COUNSEL
      Posted by The Great Satan to Hugin
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 0:48 AM PDT #3 of 15

What better way than to release bio-weapons in Iraqi cities?

Uh, why would he release them in Iraqi cities? Wouldn't it make more sense to release them over here?


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The Sniper : Interview with Clark Staten of emergency.com
      Posted by The Great Satan to Nogbad
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 0:43 AM PDT #4 of 22

Sounds like a complete idiot to me. We've had plenty or random serial killers and spree shooters in this country, of about every variety you could think of and then some. What is this guy smoking?

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Yemen blast may have terror link
      Posted by The Great Satan to Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 0:41 AM PDT #8 of 16

I thought the US State Department had given al-Qaeda a clean bill of health on this one.

Between the State Department, the CIA, and the FBI, is at any wonder we're up s*** creek?


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Desparate measures: How will Saddam react?
      Posted by The Great Satan to Sabertooth
On
News/Activism 10/11/2002 0:24 AM PDT #27 of 45

I believe there was a thus far unpublicized credible threat of an anthrax attack on White House personnel on September 11th, 2001. Why else administer Cipro?

The truth is, the anthrax follow-up was a no-brainer. It was immediately obvious to Team Bush who was behind the WTC attack. I mean, let's be real: aside from Iraq, what other countries were we in a state of war with on 9/11/01? The only WMD we know Saddam has at his disposal that is scary enough to deter the United States from retaliating is -- you've guessed it -- anthrax. There could well have been a specific, unpublicized threat, but it is by no means necessary to invoke one to explain the Cipro.

If you are familiar with the shape and direction of the US biodefense program since the Gulf War, you will understand that it has been primarily motivated by the scenario of Saddam launching a massive, clandestine terror attack on the US and backing it up with biowarfare blackmail. Which, of course, is exactly what happened last year. People usually do see threats coming and understand their own vulnerabilities -- for example, the French high command knew perfectly well that the Maginot Line was useless against Hitler -- but the reality is, until they happen, most people would rather think about something else.


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Desparate measures: How will Saddam react?
      Posted by The Great Satan to Sabertooth
On
News/Activism 10/10/2002 10:12 PM PDT #5 of 45

Who sent the anthrax, Jacob?


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Manipulation, In Scheme Of Things -- Skakel Lawyer Steered Media Before Moxley Trial
      Posted by The Great Satan to aculeus
On
News/Activism 10/10/2002 9:42 PM PDT #13 of 13

In dealing with all members of the press, avoid cliches. Referring to a case as a tragedy or to a client as being framed does not convey a thoughtful message. To describe an unfortunate death situation, I use the term "a horrible human event." Come up with phrases that you believe in and are comfortable saying. Repeat them continuously, and they will be repeated by the media. After awhile, the repetition almost becomes a fact. That is your ultimate goal.

Secrets of a Celebrity Lawyer by Robert Shapiro



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Osama Bin Laden alive and getting fat, says al-Qaeda "information officer"
      Posted by The Great Satan to AM2000
On
News/Activism 10/10/2002 9:37 PM PDT #32 of 55

Time for al-Qaeda to release an Osama workout video. In today's post-Taliban world, you need tight abs and firm buttocks to be a jihad warrior.

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Liberation Blitz: Winning in Iraq won't quite be a cakewalk
      Posted by The Great Satan to Pokey78
On
News/Activism 10/10/2002 9:18 PM PDT #4 of 5

In a multidirectional campaign, coalition forces could initially seize the cities of Basra in the south and Mosul in the north and most of the oil fields.

This is actually one of the more sensible articles I've seen, even if it does not put things into their larger context. I suspect the General is on the right track here.


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US Could Be Ready for War in Iraq This Year
      Posted by The Great Satan to NormsRevenge
On
News/Activism 10/10/2002 4:47 PM PDT #13 of 61

Figure this gets kicked around for another few months in the UN, with more weapons inspections hoopla to kill time, then military action cranks up sometime in the spring of 2003. Anthrax vaccine will be on hand to protect the civilian population by early 2004, so figure that Bush will time things so that Saddam's back is to the wall about six months before the next Presidential election -- and not before.

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Gen. Zinni Says Containing Iraq Can Work
      Posted by The Great Satan to NormsRevenge
On
News/Activism 10/10/2002 4:24 PM PDT #30 of 47

Who sent the anthrax, Admiral?


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Gen. Zinni Says Containing Iraq Can Work
      Posted by The Great Satan to NormsRevenge
On
News/Activism 10/10/2002 4:21 PM PDT #29 of 47

In the penultimate paragraph Mylroie concludes: "Given how decisive America's defeat of Iraq seemed in 1991, Saddam has accomplished a significant part of his program. He has secured the critical goal of ending UN weapons inspections, and he is now free to rebuild an arsenal of unconventional armaments. he has also succeeded in thoroughly confusing America as to the nature of the terrorist threat it has faced since the World Trade Center bombing. He is free, it would appear, to carry out more terrorist attacks, possibly even unconventional terrorism, as long as he can make it appear to be the work of a loose network of Muslim extremists." And thus Laurie Mylroie predicts Saddam Hussein will continue to attack American citizens and interests. At a minimum, we should expect attempted bombings and other attacks in the year 2001 and beyond. And so, the question about Saddam Hussein remains, what is to be done?

The dust jacket of Study of Revenge lists laudatory comments from former Director of Central Intelligence R. James Woolsey, former Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard N. Perle, former Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Paul Wolfowitz, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Jeanne J. Kirkpatrick, former CIA chief of counterterrorism Vincent Cannistraro, and the former director of the New York FBI Office James M. Fox. And these comments are well-earned. Study of Revenge reads well and it sets a new high standard for investigative literature; it is the product of thorough and painstaking research, and its conclusions are sobering.

Middle East Intelligence Bulletin, January, 2001

More Praise for Study of Revenge

THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMB: Who is Ramzi Yousef? and Why It Matters
by Laurie Milroy, The National Interest, Winter 1995/1996



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CIA undermines Bush over Iraqi chemical weapons
      Posted by The Great Satan to Schmedlap
On
News/Activism 10/10/2002 4:05 AM PDT #11 of 19

Are we to discount the report based on past oversight by the reporting body, rather than upon the merits, or lack thereof, of the actual report?

The historical track record would be the best available evidence for judging the validity of the report, yes.


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CIA undermines Bush over Iraqi chemical weapons
      Posted by The Great Satan to per loin
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 11:31 PM PDT #6 of 19

Yes, their assessments last year proved as good as the ones they provided to Bush Sr. before the invasion of Kuwait, when they told him Saddam was no threat.

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A year later, clues on anthrax still few
      Posted by The Great Satan to Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 11:24 PM PDT #29 of 31

I can't see us giving Saddam 2 more years grace. We're going in this year.

We don't have any choice in the matter. Saddam has the initiative here, and he has us behind the eight-ball. I do see Bush probably initiating some sort of military action some time next spring, after the UN and the congress have spun their wheels a bit, because he cannot afford to lose momentum. However, as we have seen already, it's amazing how easy it is to string this thing out.

The action next year will not directly jeopardize Saddam's position, no matter what rumors and disinformation you read to the contrary -- that would be far too dangerous at this stage of the game.

There could be some sort of token effort, with meaningless strikes against alleged WMD sites, to keep the ball in play. However, my guess is that we will invade, but in a reprise of the Afghanistan campaign, we will fight a fairly conventional war-for-territory, relying heavily on local proxies. We can put the squeeze on Saddam from the North and the South, since his ability to project force is already severely limited owing to the No-Fly zones, plus the Kurds and the Shiites hate his guts. This approach would allow us to fight a drawn-out war which will provide plenty of opportunity for mini-victories, publicly popular "liberations," and the like, without forcing Saddam's back to the wall until 2004.

It may be realistic to hope that we can have reasonable civil defense measures against the anthrax sleepers in place by spring to summer of 2004 (we should have plenty of vaccine by then, at least), which would allow Bush to bring the war to a climax and finish off Saddam with a buffer of six months or so to go before the presidential election. This is what Bush is preparing the public for when he says, "Saddam Hussein should understand that I'm a very patient man," I imagine. Four years to deal with Saddam once and for all, given Clinton's disastrous legacy of September 11 and the anthrax blackmail, is absolutely trivial -- the blink of an historical eye.

Any way, the bottom line is, Bush has no choice. If he pushes it now, he might as well write off our big East Coast cities, and those of our European allies, because we are defenseless against the anthrax threat at this time.

The long-term pincer movement war is a no-brainer from the standpoint of US conventional capabilities, of course -- it'll be like falling off a log. The big question is whether Saddam has any good counter-moves. I'm mildly optimistic that Saddam is pretty much locked into an all-or-nothing deterrence strategy. If he tries to fight some kind of limited biological war using his al-Qaeda proxies, I think he's probably going to seal his own fate sooner -- more likely he will hold out until the very end.

Having said that, I admit I haven't given the problem as much thought as Saddam no doubt has. He may have some more creative moves in mind. One big thing, though, is that his cat's paw, Arafat, has already been taken off the chess-board. Obviously, that lesson of the Gulf War was not lost on Bush, Powell, Sharon, et al. That limits his scope for using the Palistinian conflict as a pretext for a diversionary second-front terror war; he would have to rely on proxy terrorist leaders who haven't yet been legitimated in the eyes of the euros and the New York Times, and doing the up-front PR work to bring them on board may prove difficult in the context of an on-going hot war against the US, the Shiites and the Kurds. We shall see.


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An Anthrax Widow May Sue U.S.
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl; Howlin
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 6:31 PM PDT #4 of 13

btt

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An Anthrax Widow May Sue U.S.
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 6:31 PM PDT #3 of 13

btt

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An Anthrax Widow May Sue U.S.
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 6:30 PM PDT #2 of 13

btt

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An Anthrax Widow May Sue U.S.
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 10/09/2002 6:30 PM PDT with 12 comments


Hartford Courant ^ | October 9 2002 | DAVE ALTIMARI And JACK DOLAN
Ineligible for financial aid to victims of Sept. 11 and angry over signs that an Army lab may have unwittingly provided the anthrax that killed her husband last fall, the widow of a Florida tabloid editor is exploring a lawsuit against the federal government. A law firm retained by Maureen Stevens - whose husband, Robert, was the first of five people to die of inhalation anthrax in last year's mail attacks - has been investigating a potential wrongful-death claim against the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases in Frederick, Md. The law firm has been collecting Army documents...
     

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A year later, clues on anthrax still few
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 6:17 PM PDT #21 of 31

The feds WANT us to think the clues are few. That, in itself, is a clue.

Indeed. At minimum, they could tell us what the weaponization analysis revealed, and what we know about the two anthrax letters that were opened at AMI. The fact that they haven't revealed this information a year into what is universally derided as an apparent cluster-f*** investigation tells you that there is a reason for the apparent cluster-f***.


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A year later, clues on anthrax still few
      Posted by The Great Satan to Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 6:14 PM PDT #20 of 31

I agree that is how it seems to have been done, but I cannot fathom the administration's continuing ignoring of Prague etc. What's there motive now? That's the part I don't get.

That's easy. On the most optimistic assumptions, it will be two years from 9/11 to the point at which we can possibly take on Saddam head-on. (The new anthrax vaccine which the government has ordered to protect the civilian population is supposed to be through safety trials at the end of 2003.) What is the administration supposed to tell the public in the meanwhile? Saddam got us back real good for the Gulf War on September 11, and his back-end security is well thought-out, just like the 9/11 plan itself, and cast-iron. For now, Bush cannot lay a finger on him.

Now, the FBI, the CIA, members of the last administration, the Democratic Party, the left-wing intelligentsia and the liberal news media all have very strong, independent motivations for running interference for Saddam, independent of the scenario that I have laid out for you here. To a certain extent, the administration may be glad of the cover that gives them for the time being -- it's certainly keeps things fuzzy, which is highly desirable from their standpoint. In some cases the administration seems to be clearly leveraging useful idiots to stall the public -- Barbara Rosenberg is an obvious case in point.

In other cases, non-aligned forces are exploiting the administration's predicament to protect their own interests. Both Clinton and Tenet stand to be completely discredited in the eyes of history if Bush calls Saddam's bluff, as that will, somewhere down the line, involve exposing Saddam's links to earlier acts of terrorism against the United States, and Clinton and Tenet's role in letting him off the hook. The catastrophe of 9/11 is their legacy. Hence, both Clinton and Tenet are now saying: "Saddam had nothing to with 9/11, but if you point the finger at him, you'll have to go after him and he'll use his al-Qaeda connections to hit us with biological WMD, and then you'll be sorry. Let sleeping dogs lie."

And then there are also just a bunch of confused, hopelessly self-deluded leftist bozos in the media who carry Saddam's water without even understanding what they are doing. So there are multiple forces at work here. That's reality for you -- everybody pursues there own agenda, and the wily figure out how to leverage that fact to the greatest advantage.


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A year later, clues on anthrax still few
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl; Howlin
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 2:18 PM PDT #4 of 31

btt

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A year later, clues on anthrax still few
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 2:18 PM PDT #3 of 31

btt

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A year later, clues on anthrax still few
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 2:18 PM PDT #2 of 31

btt

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A year later, clues on anthrax still few
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 10/09/2002 2:17 PM PDT with 30 comments


Baltimore Sun ^ | October 9, 2002 | Scott Shane
Probe: Investigation has been widely criticized for puzzling delays and questionable methods. It began with an ugly red bump on the middle finger of Johanna Huden's right hand. Huden, an editorial assistant for the New York Post, thought it was an insect bite. In retrospect, Huden's infection, which appeared about Sept. 21 last year, would turn out to be the first sign of the first major bioterrorist attack in U.S. history. Her job opening the Post's mail had put her in contact with spores of Bacillus anthracis leaking from a poisoned letter to the editor - making her what epidemiologists...
     
 
Experts: Iraq May Have Smallpox
      Posted by The Great Satan to Paleo Conservative
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 1:58 PM PDT #10 of 10

Why would a physicist know about the details of the biological and chemical warfare programs.

Hussein Kamel was not a phycisist. He was Saddam's son-in-law, and he ran Saddam's CBW program. He's the reason we know what went on in that program.

Here's a backgrounder for you.


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Fallaci goes on trial for anti-Muslim book
      Posted by The Great Satan to sharktrager
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 1:49 PM PDT #13 of 26

ANGER AND PRIDE

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Mass smallpox vaccination prepared
      Posted by The Great Satan to aristeides
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 1:40 PM PDT #41 of 54

Isn't there evidence that Iraq has been experimenting with camelpox? I wonder if it would be possible to genetically modify it into something nasty.

True. If they have a genetically-modified smallpox then all the vaccination in the world is likely useless, and we're all doomed. I think that's a fairly unlikely possibility, given that "Dr. Germ" is reportedly far from an evil genius -- she's just evil. OTOH, Saddam does have a track record of seeking out the best and the brightest for his "special weapons" programs (remember Dr. Bull, of "Supergun" fame), so, you never know.

Alternatively, it could be the source of a vaccine effective against smallpox.

Then again, maybe they really are worried about their camels. It is the Middle East, after all.

Basically, in considering threats, you have to make a comparative judgment about the evidence that each specific threat is credible, the likely damage, and the cost and feasibility of countermeasures. I see too many people on this site running around like chickens with their heads cut off and screaming "Blue Murder!" over remote, hypothetical threats, when a very concrete and much more serious threat is clearly in the public domain.

Mind you, I think this response is, in part, by design of the authorities. Smallpox scares provide people with a justification for worrying about Saddam Hussein and for pushing forward with civil defense, but they are not so concrete that people are actually going to change their lives or eceonomic behaviour because of them. Thus such hypothetical proxy scares (smallpox, dirty bombs, suitcase nukes) address the conflicting aims of the policymaker -- the desire to build needed support for war preparations, with the desire to avoid handing the aggressor a psychological and economic victory.


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Mass smallpox vaccination prepared
      Posted by The Great Satan to Alamo-Girl; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 1:19 PM PDT #39 of 54

biothreat analysis

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Mass smallpox vaccination prepared
      Posted by The Great Satan to UKCajun; EternalHope; Mitchell; Nogbad; Travis McGee; aristeides
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 1:06 PM PDT #38 of 54

Smallpox is not likely in Saddam's doomsday toolkit -- if it was, we most likely would have heard about it after Hussein Kamil's defection in 1995. Saddam's CBW program is based on three major agents:
  • Anthrax
  • Botulinum toxin
  • VX gas
Certainly, it is a good thing that we will shortly have stocks on hand to innoculate the whole population against smallpox, if necessary. After all, you never know. But even if Saddam had smallpox, it would make a poor vengeance weapon. First, most of the victims would eventually be in the Third World, which won't have vaccine. Secondly, simulations of such attacks indicate that, even in the event of mass dispersals, the final death toll in the United States would not likely exceed the hundreds, because of the slowness with which the disease spreads and the ease of containment. Note that the much-publicized, worst-case "Dark Winter" Scenario, which foresees a million dead, is based on an attack without vaccine on hand. Thirdly, smallpox does not destroy property or involve an area-denial effect.

In contrast, the key component of Saddam's WMD arsenal, anthrax, is capable of producing far higher casualties and almost unimaginable economic damage. A recent Rand study predicted up to 3 million dead from a large-scale anthrax dispersal in California -- far higher than the death toll from any conceivable hand-delivered smallpox, nuke or dirty bomb-type attack. A 1993 Congressional Office of Technology Assessment study predicted a death toll of up to 3 million from an anthrax attack on Washington, DC. It was this study that Sec. Def. William Cohen famously referenced in his "bag of sugar" demonstration. Recall, to, that any city which depends heavily on a subway for its economic livelihood can be basically written-off if Saddam's sleepers release the "Daschle" type aerosolizable anthrax in the subway system. Decontamination would take years, so a city like New York would become essentially waste ground after such an attack, never mind the initial casualties. Recall, too, that 4 million people use the NYC subway every day. In the event of a large scale anthrax release on that subway -- say an al-Qaeda martyrdom operative tossing the contents of a breifcase onto the tracks the night before rush hour -- not only could you expect a large fraction of these people to die but, given the extremely time-critical nature of any treatment, a complete collapse of the civil order would be inevitable.

After he destroyed the World Trade Center last year, Saddam put Bush on notice as to what the final consequence of any showdown would be, sending the US political leadership a sample of the most highly-weaponized anthrax ever produced, along with a warning:

If you have been wondering why the buildup for the campaign against Iraq has been so leisurely, or why the US government has been stalling the public over the source and meaning of the anthrax letters for a year, wonder no more. Engage your noggin, and think it through. For the time being, at least, we are truly f***ed. The advantage in war is always with the aggressor, because he has worked out his moves beforehand. It will take the rest of Bush's term before we can hope to get ourselves out of this pickle.


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Maryland Sniper Shootings-FR Commentary
      Posted by The Great Satan to aristeides
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 12:34 PM PDT #661 of 846

I think it's a warning to the political leaders in D.C.

I think it's just a Charlie Starkweather/Charles Whitman/Columbine type whacko.


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***I'm Sorry, But Byrd Needs To Go Home***
      Posted by The Great Satan to The Wizard
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 12:27 PM PDT #33 of 54

But isn't KKK the "Conscience of the Senate"? Or, I forget, was that Joe Lieberman? But Lieberman's for attacking Iraq. Imagine that: dueling consciences of the Senate.

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Experts: Iraq May Have Smallpox
      Posted by The Great Satan to Sweet_Sunflower29
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 0:51 AM PDT #8 of 10

Saddam may have it, but there's a serious dearth of evidence, and the chances are he doesn't. If he had smallpox in his program, why didn't Hussein Kamil reveal that after his defection in 1995? Kamil would know, right? That doesn't make sense to me.

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Speech Had Big Audience Despite Networks' Action
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 10/09/2002 0:32 AM PDT #22 of 23

The networks said they did not carry it because the administration did not expressly ask them to

Strategery. Dubya knew the lib networks would take a pass, exposing millions of new viewers to Fox. It's called "building your base." Gotta think more than one move ahead if you want to outsmart Dubya.


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CIA Says Iraq Drawing A Line On Attacking US
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 7:47 PM PDT #11 of 28

The Company isn't being very helpful, are they?

Could it be that they have just as much to hide as the FBI?


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CIA Says Iraq Drawing A Line On Attacking US
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 7:45 PM PDT #9 of 28

In response to a U.S. attack, the likelihood that Saddam would respond with chemical or biological weapons was "pretty high," the intelligence witness said.

Indeed. If you remember, Saddam put us all on notice of that, right after he demolished the World Trade Center:



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Bush Iraq Plan Hits Snag In Senate
      Posted by The Great Satan to Asmodeus
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 7:43 PM PDT #66 of 85

Tenet, in a letter read before a joint hearing of the House and Senate intelligence committees Tuesday, said that "Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks with conventional or chemical or biological weapons."

Really? Then who sent this letter, which held a sample of anthrax "ground to a microscopic fineness not achieved by U.S. biological-weapons experts"?



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Bush Iraq Plan Hits Snag In Senate
      Posted by The Great Satan to Asmodeus
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 7:14 PM PDT #65 of 85

Note that Tenet is singing the same tune as his ex-boss, Clinton: Saddam is innocent, but he'll use al-Qaeda to hit America with biological weapons if you go after him. Put it another way: What people don't know won't hurt them. Let sleeping dogs lie. 9-11 is water under the bridge now. Why dredge up this bad business? Keep your trap shut, because if you expose us, you're going to regret it.

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Is the American empire already over?
      Posted by The Great Satan to meenie
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 6:26 PM PDT #84 of 92

I suppose you have seen the satellite pictures of Iraq rebuilding their WMD facilities. Why don't they take a little side trip from the no-fly patrols and take them out?

Uh, that would constitute an attack on Iraq, which is what we are talking about.


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Is the American empire already over?
      Posted by The Great Satan to Trickyguy
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 10:36 AM PDT #73 of 92

TheUS has troops in 144 countries

Like Germany, you mean? Is Germany part of the US empire? You are a pathetic, self-deluded peckerhead.


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Will the War Do the Job?
      Posted by The Great Satan to ninenot
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 10:34 AM PDT #8 of 11

Plenty of interesting investment possibilities out there. I would go long on companies that make vaccines, treatments and test kits for potential biowar agents like anthrax. Another area that's going to receive a lot of attention going forward is low-cost, mass-producible sensors to detect aerosolized biological and chemical agents. That technology is on the cusp now, and the demand is going to be huge. Drone aircraft will be big. Satellite remote sensing will be big. Pattern recognition systems to pick stuff out of satellite imagery is another thing we're going to want a lot more of it. Add your own hot-list items at will.

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Freeh: Right Wing Groups Bigger Threat
      Posted by The Great Satan to joesnuffy
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 1:26 AM PDT #40 of 74

It's time to deep-six the FBI and the CIA. They have long-since outlived their usefulness. Three thousand Americans were murdered last September 11 owing to their malfeasance, their obtuseness, their lard-ass bureaucratic ineptness, and their political correctness. They could have stopped it easily, but it was too much trouble, too much embarassment -- too many careers were on the line, too many past f***ups stood to be exposed. Their managemant needs to be publicly humiliated and put out to grass, pour encourager les autres. I only hope the new Office of Homeland Security is the start of something better, rather than a cover-up or another cluster-f**k. At this point, though, I don't have a lot of faith in the system. The terrorists' enablers -- Mueller, Tenet et al -- have been persitantly rewarded. I think Bush is too much of a back-slapper, too much of a pussy to do anything about it. Oh, well, I guess we'll have to live with the consequences.

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Is the American empire already over?
      Posted by The Great Satan to meenie
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 0:41 AM PDT #6 of 92

The United States has not the slightest interest in empire-building. This is a pathetic jerk-off fantasy of a few morons on the left and the losertarian right, with no existential basis whatsoever.

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DIPLOMACY: Iraq minister fails to rally gulf states
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 0:26 AM PDT #2 of 2

What Bush has in his favor is that everybody knows Iraq's going to lose. What Saddam has in his favor is he started this thing, so he's already figured out Bush's moves in advance. It's going to be interesting, to say the least.

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Former Italian Porn star offers herself to Saddam
      Posted by The Great Satan to gd124
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 0:17 AM PDT #57 of 60

Forget it, honey. Bitches is two-a-penny in Baghdad. Saddam has his secret police pick them up off the street. You'd be at the back of long line. But, you're used to that, right?

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Is the American empire already over?
      Posted by The Great Satan to Greybird
On
News/Activism 10/08/2002 0:13 AM PDT #3 of 92

The legions haven't come home, and at this rate, they never will -- voluntarily. Afghanistan is well on its way to joining them on the list of might-as-well-be-permanent garrisons. Next year, Iraq.

You forgot Germany and Japan.


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Kennedy: Bush Iraq Plan a 'Pearl Harbor in Reverse'
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 11:55 PM PDT #22 of 89



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Why Is No One Talking About Casualties?
      Posted by The Great Satan to 3AngelaD
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 11:41 AM PDT #17 of 139

Except, except...her millionaire turned out to be gay! Or, after marriage to Arianna, he turned gay.

Maybe she wasn't very good.


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WHAT W. SHOULD SAY
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 11:40 AM PDT #3 of 13

Bush won't make the speech too convincing. This will be calibrated to keep the ball rolling without getting everybody up in arms. It will be more of the usual pabulum (Saddam used gas on his own people, Saddam could have nuclear weapons in six months, yada, yada, yada). Bush has his own schedule for removing Saddam, cognizant of the tools at Saddam's disposal to retaliate in the final showdown, our current unpreparedness to meet that threat, and a realistic time frame to something about it. Figure this will be timed to climax about six months before the next presidential election.

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Why Is No One Talking About Casualties?
      Posted by The Great Satan to Asmodeus
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 11:31 AM PDT #3 of 139

Huffington should stick to what she does best -- blowing old millionaires -- and leave the war strategy to Rumsfeld, Powell and Cheney.

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Fox News says Supreme Court Allows Lautenberg!
      Posted by The Great Satan to cynicom
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 11:25 AM PDT #162 of 602

Four of the NJ judges were appointed by a republican.

Christie Todd Whitman. From Ann Coulter's Slander:

Governor Whitman singlehandedly turned the New Jersey Supreme Court into the the most ridiculous court in the nation, easily overtaking the once-infamous California Supreme Court and even beating back stiff competition from the Florida Supreme Court. If Whitman had chosen judicial nominees by randomly pointing to names in a telephone book, New Jersey would have been better served.


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Has Iraq Been Involved In Terror Against the U.S.?
      Posted by The Great Satan to johnb838
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 11:20 AM PDT #16 of 21

This motivation on the part of Saddam is never mentioned in the US. Why?

Because he got us back good and, right now, there's not a damn thing we can do about it -- that's why. ("THIS IS NEXT WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US")


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Maureen Dowd: 'Influential Jews' Pushing Iraq War
      Posted by The Great Satan to Tumbleweed_Connection
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 9:10 AM PDT #9 of 76

Hillary's lips are sealed. No way is she going to let those f***ing Jew bastards trick her into saying something untoward. Gotta maintain political viability at all costs.

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Maureen Dowd: 'Influential Jews' Pushing Iraq War
      Posted by The Great Satan to Tumbleweed_Connection
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 9:08 AM PDT #6 of 76

Rumsfeld and Cheney are honorary "goy" members of the Jewish cabal that pulls Bush's strings, on Dowd's theory of the case. I wonder if they have a secret handshake?

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The Afghan 'War' Has Continued for Over a Year
      Posted by The Great Satan to Jasonconley
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 8:52 AM PDT #9 of 14

American soldiers have no one to wage war with in Afghanistan.

And this is bad because...?


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GAY TWIST IN STABBING OF PARIS MAYOR
      Posted by The Great Satan to Rome2000
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 1:42 AM PDT #3 of 12

Indeed. Here's the latest from CNN.com:

Paris mayor recovering from attack

Sunday, October 6, 2002 Posted: 2:04 PM EDT (1804 GMT)
paris
Bertrand Delanoe, Paris' Socialist mayor, was stabbed in his abdomen

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PARIS, France (CNN) -- Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoe is recovering in hospital after being stabbed by an attacker as he left a concert in City Hall.

Delanoe, 52, was rushed by ambulance to the French capital's Pitie-Salpetriere hospital after an attacker lunged at him with a knife and slashed him during an all-night party at the elegant Hotel de Ville, officials told The Associated Press.

Delanoe was conscious after the man knifed him in his abdomen. The mayor urged his assistant to make sure the "Nuit Blanche," or "Sleepless Night" celebrations continued after the incident.

Eyewitnesses described the 39-year-old attacker as appearing deranged. Police are questioning the man they say has a criminal record and who is known to them.

The socialist mayor underwent three hours of surgery and was transferred to a postoperative recovery room on Sunday morning.

Segolene Royal, a former Socialist family minister who visited the mayor at the hospital, said he suffered injuries to several organs and would be in hospital for at least eight days

About 2,000 people were gathered at the venue for a rock concert when the attack happened about 2:30 a.m. (0023 GMT).

Delanoe was surrounded by a large entourage at the time of the attack and was on his way to check security in the city, the deputy mayor said.

Paris' chief of police and Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy -- whose main concern has been improving security across France -- has travelled to the hospital to check on the mayor.

Delanoe, Paris' first socialist mayor, has made many changes across the city since he was elected last year. He created "Nuit Blanche," the all-night party where all of Paris' major attractions stay open until dawn.

Many Parisians approved of his decision to create a beach along the riverside of the Seine, but traffic corridors he had set up across the city to allow express treatment for buses and bicycles have not been as popular.

The attack comes three months after a 25-year-old man fired a gun during a Bastille Day celebration in Paris, in an alleged attempt to assassinate French President Jacques Chirac, who was nearly 100 yards away at the time.

Chirac was not injured in the attack, and the man was detained and committed to a psychiatric ward.

In March, a gunman opened fire on a late-night city council meeting in the Paris suburb of Nanterre, killing eight people and injuring more than a dozen others.



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Has Iraq Been Involved In Terror Against the U.S.?
      Posted by The Great Satan to piasa
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 1:37 AM PDT #7 of 21

A search of one of his apartments turned up telephone records linking him to suspects in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing as well as a 1994 Philippine-based plot to blow up civilian airlines over the Pacific Ocean.

Presumably Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the disco-dancing, skirt-chasing "muslim fundamentalist" who was on al-Jazeera last month describing how he organized the 9-11 attacks.


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Has Iraq Been Involved In Terror Against the U.S.?
      Posted by The Great Satan to glorygirl; okie01
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 0:57 AM PDT #5 of 21

this should be of interest

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Has Iraq Been Involved In Terror Against the U.S.?
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 0:56 AM PDT #4 of 21

great interview

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Baghdad doesnt know the score (a good read)
      Posted by The Great Satan to Colorado Doug
On
News/Activism 10/07/2002 0:48 AM PDT #5 of 5

If the country does not possess 'weapons of mass destruction,' then it has nothing to fear from UN inspectors, whatever the tasks they are called upon to perform.

Iraq has nothing to fear from weapons inspections, who will find nothing -- just as they found nothing the first time. The song-and-dance over the weapons inspectors is a passion play for the sake of world opinion. Iraq can balk for a while, then capitulate, so Bush can look tough (fine by Saddam), and Saddam can play defiant victim. Then the inspectors go in, they can't find anything, Iraq is vindicated, Saddam wins again. Just like last time around.


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True Believer
      Posted by The Great Satan to JohnFiorentino
On
News/Activism 10/06/2002 8:20 PM PDT #34 of 34

Great post!

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Naif calls for global stand to oppose war on Iraq
      Posted by The Great Satan to Lessismore
On
News/Activism 10/06/2002 8:11 PM PDT #3 of 3

Naif calls for global stand to oppose war on Iraq

I thought the "naif" was going to be Barbra Streisand or Jessica Lang. What strange names these people do have.


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Interview / Vicious circles closing in
      Posted by The Great Satan to Jabba the Nutt; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Mitchell; Nogbad; Fred Mertz
On
News/Activism 10/06/2002 7:56 PM PDT #8 of 26

Really fascinating interview. Thanks for posting.

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Europe: The amnesiac hit man
      Posted by The Great Satan to x
On
News/Activism 10/06/2002 11:19 AM PDT #7 of 9

When a situation similar to 1938 happened in 1991, Europe was essentially on board.

Actually, the situation today is an action replay of 1991. I remember the run up to Desert Storm very well. I was in the UK at the time. Basically, outside of the United States, only Margaret Thatcher was for taking on Saddam. Every argument you hear today against taking on Iraq was broadcast 24x7 by the euro elites -- we've got to solve the Palistinian problem first, the Arab street will be inflamed, Russia won't like it, it will start World War III, the Americans are acting like cowboys, it's all about oil, it's all about politics, we created Hussein, we'll take 50,000 casualties in a march on Baghdad, the "elite Republican Guard" will give us a good hiding, we must try sanctions first, what about the Iraqi civilians who'll be killed?, etc., etc. And, after the fighting got underway, every slight setback for Desert Storm received enormous, apocalyptic play from the elite media, who meanwhile fell over themselves to give a platform and a voice to the Iraqi tyrant.

So, I just yawn whenever I hear this stuff all over again. One of the benefits of getting older is you begin to understand how limited and predictable people really are, and learn to discount their words accordingly.


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Iraq's Dr. Germ - the deadliest woman alive
      Posted by The Great Satan to Ranger
On
News/Activism 10/06/2002 11:00 AM PDT #19 of 20

But a few weeks later, Saddam Hussein's son-in-law, Gen. Hussein Kamel, defected and told Western intelligence what Taha and her research counterparts were really up to. Iraq then gave the UN 600,000 pages of documents outlining its weapons program. It turned out the Iraqis had made thousands of gallons of toxins.

Just a reminder of why weapons inspections are worse than useless. The weapons inspectors found nothing -- in fact, they were ready to give Saddam a clean bill of health -- when Kamel defected and blew the lid off the whole thing.


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Iraq's Dr. Germ - the deadliest woman alive
      Posted by The Great Satan to Ranger
On
News/Activism 10/06/2002 10:58 AM PDT #18 of 20

Her mentor and friend, chief of East Anglia's biology department John Turner, remembered her as shy, hardworking and not markedly gifted.

Thank heaven for small mercies.


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The art of terror
      Posted by The Great Satan to Pokey78
On
News/Activism 10/06/2002 10:53 AM PDT #5 of 7

In Iraq, torture is considered an art form, too. Think about that.

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As court considers N.J. ballot challenge, Forrester challenges Lautenberg to debates
      Posted by The Great Satan to Larry Lucido
On
News/Activism 10/06/2002 1:03 AM PDT #21 of 22

"The two major parties have politicized the New Jersey Supreme Court,"

Really? I thought that the problem was that the Democrats ran a crook.


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FBIs "Perverse Culture"
      Posted by The Great Satan to FreedomFriend
On
News/Activism 10/06/2002 0:47 AM PDT #20 of 40

Well, I guess it comes down to whether you really believe Dick Cheney is totally in the dark about whether Saddam has anthrax-equipped sleepers here, ready to take out America's greatest cities if we kill Saddam, and he's just decided that we better wing it because there's just no way the US government can find anybody better than Van Harp and Bob Roth to put on the case, or whether you believe something else is going on. I know what I believe.

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Kidnappers demand $800 for return of Baby Jesus

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UK Boycott of work by Israeli scientists 'could cost lives'

Alexander critical of Lott's words (1st African - American Kelvin Moxley elected Vice Chair TN GOP)

Bill Offers Protection For Students Raised Here

Anti-Chavez Protesters Surround Tankers

Booming work at Cheney's house stirs neighbors

Iraq's Aziz calls Bush a "hypocrite" (i.e. a Christian warmonger)

CA: So far, prisons manage to duck the budget ax

CA,OR,WA: Feeling the full force - Intense rain, wind sweep the region

Tens of Thousands S.Koreans Participate in Anti-American Rallies

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News / Activism
Editorial

Ted Rall: George W. Bush, Warlord (A Presidential Impostor Turns Political Assassin)

We don't talk this way

TIM HAMES: Why Saddam's musical can only end with a bang

Canada -- Feds running on empty -- Can they be trusted to keep Kyoto costs under control?

Econ 101: supply, demand and prayer

CANDID CAMERA: The media watchdog group comes to Chicago to tell Jews here "the real story"

American fatalism: US-consider diplomacy as first & last resort, look to Europe to see the wisdom

Ghosts of the Past

ROGER TOUSSAINT'S LOW MOMENT(MTA TRANSIT STRIKE)

Lott's sin is giving Dems ammo--so he must go

Is Riverdale A Settlement?: Synagogue attack puts Israel and Arabs on trial in the Bronx

'Social conservatism' exactly what does it mean? (PROJECTILE BARF ALERT)

GOP and racists? Thick as thieves (Mega Barf alert)

Sieve at Los Alamos

Lott not suitable as leader (CHICAGO 1ST DISTRICT BARFER!!!)

Leave Our Holidays Alone

The Flaw in using Smallpox as a Weapon

Lott was only spilling GOP's dirty little secret

Britain appeases a dictator

Charting a surer path to peace: If Israel escalates war against militant Islam, US should support it

NINTH CIRCUIT CLAIMS THERE IS NO RIGHT TO ARMS[Michael Bellesiles is used as sources!)

Jimmy Carter's Selective Memory

No Time for Colorblindness (Why We Need Affirmative Action)

Fashion And Ferment In Iran

No room for dinosaurs in Republican 'big tent'

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News / Activism
Extended News

Embezzlers suck funds from 'town of fruits'

Alberta uprising feared

Man charged with contempt for obscene message on check

Green Wealth, Animal Rights Riches

The United Nations: It's Time to End the Farce

Syrian pipeline helps Iraq evade UN oil sanctions (SOME EXPLAINING TO DO ALERT)

Christmas is 'cancelled' in Bethlehem

Sign of the Times-Prep Yearbook Staff Votes to Include 2 Girls As 'Cutest Couple,' Students Walk Out

Saved by the (School) Bell (CA bonds= jobs)

Female teacher says sex with boy, 10, was consensual

Invitation to terrorism

Chrysler Sees Tough U.S. Market Ahead

Cheaper Labor Drawing High-Skilled Tech Jobs from U.S.

Bosnia Serb Plavsic set for war crimes 'mea culpa'

Alarm bells ring at Fed (deflation alert)

Iraq Urges U.N. to Stop U.S.-British Air Strikes

Convicted Chechen warlord Raduyev dies in prison

Moscow criticizes Baghdad's decision to cancel oil contract with Russia's biggest oil company

PA Libel: Jewish Religion sees Arabs as subhuman

Christian-Right Zionism

Jimmy Carter, The Most Respected Man In America? Naaaah!....

Demi Dating Bill Clinton [Ex-POTUS Flacks Float Trial Baloon for Separation from Hillary in 2003]

Sean Penn Says War in Iraq Is Avoidable

Weather thwarts efforts to salvage sunken Channel ship (nearly 2,900 luxury cars sink)

Mysore sex scandal: Resort owner pleads ignorance

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News / Activism
Announcements

Lott Should Seek Repentence as did Bill Clinton --( Cinton to receive weekly Spiritual Counseling )

USO Canteen FReeper Style~ Sunday Chapel ~ December 15 2002

Purple Heart recipients to be honored on new postage stamp in 2003

Boycott & Protest Rainbow Grocery, San Francisco, CA

Republicans Should not choose New York City as site of 2004 convention

Senator Trent Lott announced today that he is actually an African American!

New book on parenting engenders anger in gays

How many of you heard that Beauprez won Colorado's 7th?

FREEPOP: At Last a Useful Popup, But Only for Free Republic Users

IT'S A BOY!!!

Texas Freeper Fieldtrip Report - Finally!

USO Canteen FReeper Style ~ Help Decorate the Canteen Christmas Tree ~ December 14 2002

Iraq Tourism Board (Book Your Vacation Now!)

Trailer for Civil War Movie Gods and Generals

WHEN CHRISTMAS BECOMES ILLEGAL

Prayer Request for freeper Jeff Head's father

TOYS FOR TOTS -- Christmas FReep REQUEST!!

Vacant Lott for Rent: The Trent Lott Press Conference Live Thread.

Why is NRA M.I.A. on Ninth Circuit Ruling?

Caption Time-Ol' Strom Thurmond Has Had Enough..Comes Out of Retirement After Trent Lott Uproar!

FREEP These Leftist Scrooges! (my title)

FREE REPUBLIC.COM, YOUR AL SHARPTON FOR PRESIDENT HEADQUARTERS! (Shameless Vanity)

I support Trent Lott, and so should you darnit!

Marine Corps' "Widow-Maker": Harrier Attack Jet (LA Times hit piece)

RECIPES FOR CHRISTMAS

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News / Activism
Free Republic

Smallpox and Quarentines

HAT FR Meeting Minutes (Saturday, 14 December 2002, Houston, TX)

Lott Looked Back

OJ Interviews New York Senator Hillary Rod'em Clinton

Saudi's Wage an Undeclared Economic War on the US

The [Warfare] Paradigm Shift [It has occured]

Sean Penn is going to Baghdad: below, name actors and places you'd like to send them, and state why

Vet's Memorial Cross defended by Bush and The National Park Service.

Black XIII: "Common Thread" ( SlixMUDZbeachhouse in Nags Head!!)

Rush On His Program Just Called Robert Byrd 'Sheets' On Air... ROTFLOL!!

France to open its first Islamic high school

Black students allegedly behind racist graffiti

History of FR

The Lott Problem & A Solution

If they censur Lott then they must censur Byrd

Curious Note Sent Home From School Today (moderate vanity)

The Lott Gaffe & A Whole Lot Liberal Media Bias

Nigerian email scam causes Americans to loiter in London hotel lobbies

Being Robert Byrd: Racial Entrepreneurs Remarkably Silent on this one

Lott Should Stay On ...

Liberal Democracy vs. Transnational Progressivism: The Ideological Civil War Within the West

Tribes of Gamblers

Piracy is Progressive Taxation, and Other Thoughts on the Evolution of Online Distribution

The coward Cummings was afraid to debate me on Urban Talk Radio

The Iraq-al Qaeda Connection

More ...


Question ...
What is your opinion regarding immigration:

Borders should be open. - 3%

Immigration is not a big issue. - 3%

Illegal immigration is the problem. - 34%

Immigration should be reduced. - 10%

Borders should be closed. - 15%

Seal and militarize borders. - 33%




[Senator] Specter asks probe of Iraq links to WTC-Okla. attacks
      Posted by The Great Satan to jd777
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 9:59 PM PDT #100 of 204

Satan, do you think Saddam was involved in any way at OKC?

In the last few months, my opinion on that has gone from, "Gee, that sounds pretty far out," to, "Yeah, probably." I'm not familiar with Jayna Davis' reporting, but I have a great respect for Mr. Woolsey's judgment. McVeigh's "Essay on Hypocrisy" was always a bit suspicious, the Philippines connection was also very interesting, and the recent revelations about the advance warnings re attacks on government buildings by ME terrorists are pretty hard to explain away. But, I admit I haven't followed the story that closely. What I would like to see is a credible narrative that explains how McVeigh got involved with ME types and why he stayed loyal to them. But I have no problem believing an individual such as McVeigh could in principle have the motivation to be sucked into such a plot. His essay is absolute proof that he was pro-Iraq. Scott Ritter is another existence-proof of this type of switcheroo. Indeed, disillusioned, turncoat soldiers are two-a-penny in history. But, like I say, I'd like to see the pieces put together into a credible story before I get fully on board.


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Smallpox vaccinations urged (MSNBC) - Offer to general population represents a shift in policy
      Posted by The Great Satan to Robert_Paulson2
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 9:27 PM PDT #50 of 81

any idea how long after weaponized anthrax were used, we would have to get a useful dose of the vaccine... 48 hours, or less?

I don't know the answer to that question. 1-3 days would be my stab-in-the-dark guess. Part of the problem is that the efficacy of any post-attack treatment, whether it be a vaccine, an antitoxin, or an antibiotic, is going to drop off the longer after the attack it is given. That means that, after an attack, everyone is going to be very conscious that it's a race against time, and a race against the other fellow, with literally life-and-death stakes. I really don't see any way around that, unless the meds can be pre-distributed, but I've never seen any sign of willingness to do that. The authorities have always gone out of their way to discourage people from acquiring medications prospectively. Of course, that may change when a showdown with Saddam is in the offing. Perhaps there is some kind of intermediate solution. For example, if we have enough stocks on hand, they could be distributed to every corner drug store, so that everybody could have some reasonable assurance of getting treatment promptly. They'd have to self-treat, but again, as this comes closer to a climax, the necessary education steps could be taken to make that feasible, at least if the vaccine can be administered orally. That approach would also be fool-proof against any terrorist attempt to disrupt distribution (e.g. 2AM - drop anthrax on subway tracks, 10 AM - suicide attack on treatment center).


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Smallpox vaccinations urged (MSNBC) - Offer to general population represents a shift in policy
      Posted by The Great Satan to Robert_Paulson2
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 9:12 PM PDT #47 of 81

I really think that al-Qaeda is pretty ineffectual. Yeah, I think we should find these muslim whackos and lock 'em up and throw away the key whenever we do -- I'm all for that. But I think the best way to conceptualize this is that al-Qaeda is a gang of fanatical morons who are largely incapable of doing anything themselves, but who provide a convenient repository of muscle for much more sophisticated thugs, notably Saddam Hussein. There is an enormous gap in sophistication between the 9-11 operation and most of the other al-Qaeda activities we have seen, such as the shoe bomber or the LAX shooter. It's the same if you look back to the original attempt on the WTC. A bunch of dim-witted losers were planning pipe bomb attacks on Jews in Brooklyn, and then all of a sudden this very mysterious, sophisticated, very un-Islamic figure, "Ramzi Yousef" (to use one of his many names) appears out of nowhere (actually, he was carrying an Iraqi passport) and redirects them into an attempt to knock down the WTC and kill 200,000 people. Something else is going on here, something quite different from what most people imagine.

This is not to say that al-Qaeda is not dangerous. In the first place, the establishment of an "Assassination Bureau" of would-be suicidal human missiles, ready to be contracted out to generic anti-Jewish and anti-American missions, is a revolutionary military development. Mate these suicidists to low-tech, biological WMD, and you have something every bit as revolutionary as the nuclear-tipped ICBM. In the second place, the impressive discipline and economy of means demonstrated in the 9/11 attacks may educate and inspire them to higher things. (Note, however, that the Islamists will never learn how to build jet airliners and skyscrapers -- there are limits to the "monkey see, monkey do" principle.) But, I think we need to get real: these people did not go from being a ragtag bunch of miscreants to an efficient, hyper-intelligent mobile fighting force overnight. They are still dorks. But smart people can build great empires on the backs of dorks, after all. Our real concern should be the "brain bug" in Baghdad, not a bunch of wankers living in a bedsit in Joisey.


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Smallpox vaccinations urged (MSNBC) - Offer to general population represents a shift in policy
      Posted by The Great Satan to Fred Mertz
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 8:51 PM PDT #44 of 81

I thought Cipro was the day after treatment of convenience.

Well, the government also put in an order for 100 million doses of Cipro after the anthrax attacks of last year, so that's in the stockpile already (U.S. buying 100 million doses of anthrax antibiotic). The problem is that it is generally very easy to add antibiotic resistance to bacteria -- it doesn't require sophisticated genetic engineering, just routine lab techniques -- so it's all too possible that they only used antibiotic-susceptible anthrax for the warning letters for operational reasons, i.e. to protect the senders from accidental death and subsequent exposure. I bought 60-day supplies of Doxy and Cipro after the anthrax scare, but I honestly don't have that much faith they would be much help in a real attack. The anthrax vaccine has a completely differnt mode of action and probably would save a lot of lives -- if we can put in place the infrastructure to deliver it to millions of people in a very short space of time and if we can figure out how to avoid complet, Panic in the Streets-style social disintegration when the news hits of the first few hundred people checking into St. Vincent's with respiratory problems. Those are big ifs, IMO.


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Smallpox vaccinations urged (MSNBC) - Offer to general population represents a shift in policy
      Posted by The Great Satan to Robert_Paulson2
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 8:40 PM PDT #42 of 81

I think the new vaccine is at least as good as the old vaccine. I guess the most generous interpretation of this is to say that, the estimated 1,000 deaths that would follow from immunizing the entire population might have been justified when smallpox was a concrete (natural) threat, but, in the face of a hypothetical threat, it's a tough call, and waiting till after an attack might be a better strategy.

Another interpretation, which I have suggested, is that the remote, hypothetical smallpox threat makes a convenient cover story or stalking horse for rolling out civil defense measures against the very concrete threat presented in the anthrax letters, and presented by Saddam Hussein's known heavy investment in anthrax as a poor man's alternative to nukes. I don't want to oversell this, because I think the first interpretation is arguable, but I couldn't help but be amused by the CDC director's apparent freudian slip during the interview, substituting "anthrax" for "smallpox." It does fit with my idea that their is a disconnect between what these people are worried about behind the scenes, and the comfortably hypothetical proxy threats they talk about in public (smallpox, suitcase nukes, dirty nukes, etc.)


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Smallpox vaccinations urged (MSNBC) - Offer to general population represents a shift in policy
      Posted by The Great Satan to Robert_Paulson2
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 8:26 PM PDT #35 of 81

My pleasure. Here are some relevant links:

Pentagon Shifts Anthrax Vaccine to Civilian Uses

Production and Acquisition of Anthrax Vaccine [RFP announcement]

VaxGen wins federal contract to improve anthrax vaccine

Getting Ready (CDC's director's Freudian slip?)


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Smallpox vaccinations urged (MSNBC) - Offer to general population represents a shift in policy
      Posted by The Great Satan to Robert_Paulson2
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 8:14 PM PDT #31 of 81

I wonder if this is about small pox, or OTHER attacks? Say what do they give you for radiation sickness? Iodine tabs? or injections? What about Anthrax, botulism, or ricin? plague?

What else makes sense?

For anthrax, post-attack treatment is the only viable option for the general public. Consider that, in the event of a major dispersal on the NYC subway, 4 million people would immediately be at risk of dying if they did not get treatment within 24 hours. Not a pretty picture is it?

The government just awarded a contract for a new "morning after" anthrax vaccine, which comes with an order for 25 million doses, enough to treat 8 million people. In the interim, the Pentagon's stocks have been diverted for civilian use, but the amount of vaccine is too small to handle even a single attack on the New York subway (say one sleeper agent tossing a few brown bags of the "Daschle" anthrax on the subway tracks round midnight). The are also big safety and efficacy questions surrounding the existing vaccine. The new vaccine should be through safety trials by the end of next year, if everything goes according to plan. The parallel effort to put in place a mass post-attack dissemination infrastructure, using the remote threat of a smalpox attack as a comfortingly hypothetical pretext, may mean that we have the civil defense framework in place about the same time frame. My guess is that any final showdown with Saddam will be delayed until about six months before the presidential election, based on these rate-limiting factors. There are plenty of things we can do, militarily and non-militarily, to keep the pressure up and kill the intervening time, before we push Saddam's back to the wall.


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True Believer
      Posted by The Great Satan to rwfromkansas
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 7:58 PM PDT #29 of 34

It wasn't. The PBS interview is from a ways back. As I say, although Woolsey has been on record as endorsing or at least favoring the '93 WTC bombing connection for some time, to the best of my knowledge it has only been in the last month that he has given a nod to the seemingly more "out there" notion that Saddam was also behind OKC. That was covered in the WSJ last month (regrettably, the WSJ is a subscriber-only site, but if you search, you'll find some secondary coverage).

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[Senator] Specter asks probe of Iraq links to WTC-Okla. attacks
      Posted by The Great Satan to Rye
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 7:53 PM PDT #96 of 204

But if what you're suggesting is true and Iraqi sleepers have anthrax here in the U.S. all ready to spread the disease if we so much as lift a finger against the Hussein regime, and as a result of this the Bush administration has concluded that the risk of initiating regime change in Iraq is too high, then why are making all this noise about going to war with Iraq?

Well, Bush certainly doesn't believe we should do nothing. That would have been Gore's solution, but Bush is not Gore. So we have to move to get Saddam out. On the other hand, IMO, Saddam has the initiative here, and, in war, the advantage is with the aggressor. Why? Because the victim is taken off guard, and because the aggressor has already figured out a counter to his victim's obvious response. This is why a jumped-up Lance Corporal, failed water-colorist and former street person named Adolph Hitler was able to take over the entire European continent in 12 months, BTW.

Anyway, over a year has passed since 9/11. Team Bush is still playing peek-a-boo with the evidence that Saddam was "connected" with the attacks, never mind the anthrax charade. For example, according to leaks fed to Newsweak, the proof that Mohammed Atta, operational commander for the in-country side of the 9/11 operation, met repeatedly with known Iraqi agent in Prague, incidentally the erstwhile domicile of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, rests with photographs in possession of Czech exiles, whom the FBI doesn't want to talk to because they believe VP Cheney has fantasized the whole Iraq connection. (And, if you believe that story, you'll believe anything.)

Bush has still not announced any plans for an attack on Iraq, which seems to be still many months off, if it ever occurs. It has been reliably reported that the administration is pushing Saddam to take a quiet retirement to some luxurious exile in Algiers, to head off a war. If we do go to war next year against Iraq, there are plenty of ways to do that without forcing Saddam's hand immediately: for example, we could easily do a slow-burn war on the Afghan model, grabbing the North and South No-Fly zones first over the course of a year or two, without forcing a show-down in Baghdad until the run-up to the next presidential election.

Bush is emphasizing his patience ("Saddam Hussein should remember that I'm a very patient man."). What do you think that implies? Remember, by late 2003/early 2004, we will have enough anthrax vaccine on hand to treat 8 million people. We may also have the infrastructure to deliver it in a timely fashion, although that remains to be seen.

Basically, Bush is doing what he can, and what I would expect a reasonable person (not a a Clinton or a Gore) to do in the circumstances. There is no magic bullet to deal with this problem. We have to keep the pressure on, but we can't afford to let things go non-linear before we are good and ready. Everything is a balancing act based upon those two constraints. I believe that, if you look at things in that light, you will have a realistic picture of what is going on here. It won't be "Wham Bam Thank You Saddam!" Forget about the New Moon. This is a very delicate situation, and will be handled accordingly, both from a miltary standpoint and a public perception standpoint.


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True Believer
      Posted by The Great Satan to rwfromkansas
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 1:48 PM PDT #25 of 34

Woolsey interview

Woolsey has previously praised Laurie Mylroie's book, Study of Revenge, which argued that Saddam Hussein was behind the first WTC attack in 1993, as have several important figures in or close to the Bush administration. But his endorsement of Davis' work on an OKC-Iraq link is, I believe, a new development. Something seems to be bubbling just below the surface here. Something very interesting.


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[Senator] Specter asks probe of Iraq links to WTC-Okla. attacks
      Posted by The Great Satan to Rye
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 1:40 PM PDT #58 of 204

And I'm also surprised that we haven't been playing up Saddam's connections to al Qaeda and 9/11.

Your surprise stems from the fact that you haven't thought it through fully. The way to think about it is to bring the possibility into focus, take it seriously for the sake of argument, then see what follows.

Okay, say Saddam is "connected" to 9/11. What exactly does "connected" mean? Does it seem likely that Saddam Hussein, supposedly a "survivor," a "pragmatist," and certainly a sitting duck for US retaliation, would simply allow himself to be loosely "connected" with an ultra-sophisticated plot to destroy the WTC, the Capitol and the White House? And if his "connection" is not so "loose," if in fact he was the actual author and mastermind behind this and other acts of revenge against the United States, how could he do that without facing certain death at the hands of the US military? And, why hasn't the US retaliated against him?

If you've been reading the newspapers and watching TV for the last month, you might be able to suggest one method by which Saddam could deter inevitable retaliation with the technical capabilities at his disposal, and thus hope to carry out such a veiled attack with some degree of impunity: his weapons of mass destruction. His existing WMD capability consists, so far as we know, of the following items: anthrax, VX gas, and botulinum toxin. And if you think back to last year, to the events which followed 9/11, you might remember that some still-unidentified person or persons sent the US political leadership a letter containing a sample of the most highly-weaponized, aerosolizable anthrax powder ever produced, accompanied by a warning: "THIS IS NEXT WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US."

And once you have followed all those connections and reconceptualized the events of 9/11 et seq on that basis, you will find there is no big mystery at all to why (a) removing Saddam Hussein is Bush's top post-9/11 priority, (b) Bush is taking his own sweet time about confronting Saddam, despite the clear and present danger he supposedly represents, (c) Bush is playing peek-a-boo with the evidence connecting Saddam to 9/11, (d) the feds are putting on a piss-poor effort to investigate the "puzzle" of the anthrax killings, (e) tthe US just ordered 25 million doses of anthrax vaccine to treat the civilian population after an attack.


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CONSPIRACY: The Okla. City-Sept. 11 Connection
      Posted by The Great Satan to rwfromkansas
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 12:49 PM PDT #195 of 210

I didn't catch what OKCSubMariner was banned for, but I will say that he appears to have been way ahead of the curve on this story. We need people like that.

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MSNBC Breaking-House Democrats Privately Calling for Minority Leader Gephardt to Step Down
      Posted by The Great Satan to tip of the sword
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 12:34 PM PDT #107 of 158

We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place until there is no refuge or no rest.

George W. Bush, September 20, 2001


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Saddam could stay in power if he disarms fully: Powell
      Posted by The Great Satan to Wallaby; Nogbad; Mitchell; EternalHope; Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 10/05/2002 12:01 AM PDT #27 of 29

How are we in a stronger position to retaliate after his next attack?

We don't know there will be a next attack. He may have gotten his rocks off sufficiently on 9/11. It seems awfully quiet out there. Let's face it, as an artistic masterpiece of revenge, September 11 far surpasses anything else in human history -- Saddam has plenty of reason to quit while he's ahead. Saddam is a realist, as well as sadist. Why should he asks for the stars, when he already has the moon?

Why, if we dare not publicly point the finger at him now, should he be deterred, as his threat becomes more credible and ours less so?

Point number one: We are the ones who are being deterred, not him. He already got his rocks off on September 11, remember?

Point number two: his threat will inevitably become less credible with time, because our biodefenses will get better. He's probably gambling that, at age 65, either he'll be dead, or 9/11 will be a dead issue by the time we can take a gamble on the taking him out. He may very well have calculated correctly. Everything else about the 9/11 attacks was masterfully conceived and executed. Why should we assume the back-end security wasn't similarly well thought through?


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CONSPIRACY: The Okla. City-Sept. 11 Connection
      Posted by The Great Satan to baseballmom
On
News/Activism 10/04/2002 2:50 PM PDT #153 of 210

It is also my understanding that briefings were offered to James Woolsey and he delined the offer.

I suspect that "to James Woolsey" should be "by James Woolsey." Woolsey, former director of the CIA (1993-1995), has endorsed Jayna Davis's work publicly in recent weeks (see the Wall Street Journal, September 5). I imagine that the proposal was for Woolsey to brief Mueller on his findings.


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Saddam could stay in power if he disarms fully: Powell
      Posted by The Great Satan to Zack Nguyen
On
News/Activism 10/04/2002 1:43 PM PDT #25 of 29

On a more positive note, the US just awarded the contract for a new anthrax vaccine to protect the civilian population:

The RFP (from April)

The Contract Award

The contract award comes with an order for 25 million doses. If everything goes according to plan, the vaccine will be through safety by the end of 2003, so presumably the stockpile could be in place by early 2004. That gives us about 18 months to put in place the infrastructure for high-speed, mass-distribution to millions of people after an attack is detected. That piece is being put in place, use Saddam's non-existent smallpox threat as a stalking horse.

Assuming Bush's plan is essentially to devote his first term to removing Saddam from the world stage -- e very reasonable objective with a realistic time-frame ("Saddam better remember, I'm a very patient man"), then I could see a pincer movement war starting next spring over the weapons inspections pretext, climaxing with a showdown in Bagdhad in spring of 2004. On this plan, Bush could have Saddam out six months before the next presidential election, which sounds about right.

My main concern would be whether we can really get the infrastructure in place to make a serious dent in casualties after, say, an NYC subway anthrax dispersal, and whether we have any decontamination technology on that time frame that could save us from having to totally right off the cities where the releases occur. The more I think about those problems, the less optimistic I am about a solution, unfortunately. Thus, I am far from discounting the possibility that Bush may simply put on a song-and-dance over the weapons stuff, and let Saddam off with a nod and wink ("Not guilty, but don't do it again!"). Powell is obviously pushing that option here, but to what end is the question.


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Departing delusions
      Posted by The Great Satan to JohnHuang2
On
News/Activism 10/04/2002 3:11 AM PDT #2 of 2

Of course, unlike the senator and his friends in the Clinton administration, we cooperated fully with the authorities and were completely vindicated. Thus here I am today, a free and happy man, while Mr. Torricelli shuffles off into ignominy.

Sweet!


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Ms. Ann Coulter - Right! Again!
      Posted by The Great Satan to zencycler
On
News/Activism 10/04/2002 2:48 AM PDT #8 of 22

Still my favorite picture of Ann C. Thanks for posting.

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CONSPIRACY: The Okla. City-Sept. 11 Connection
      Posted by The Great Satan to ganesha
On
News/Activism 10/04/2002 1:40 AM PDT #86 of 210

Timothy McVeigh was just Scott Ritter on steroids. Same personality type -- intelligent, articulate, boyish, prone to Walter Mitty fantasies, egotistical and over-sensitive. Hurt this type's feelings, and he'll turn on you in a New York minute. And, when he does, you'll find that the eager-beaver puppy-dog has hidden depths -- depths about which you never dreamed.

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Saddam could stay in power if he disarms fully: Powell
      Posted by The Great Satan to The Great Satan
On
News/Activism 10/04/2002 12:57 AM PDT #10 of 29

Er... who's = whose.

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Saddam could stay in power if he disarms fully: Powell
      Posted by The Great Satan to johnny7
On
News/Activism 10/04/2002 12:56 AM PDT #9 of 29

Really? Are you betting on October 6, the new moon and all that crap? If I had a penny for every "new moon" prediction I've seen on FR in the last year... Forget it. "WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX. YOU CAN NOT STOP US." It's bullet-proof. Bush has set this up for show. He'll look tough to the ignorant, the gullible and the self-deluding. The rest of us, including the whole Arab world, will understand who's ass is really getting kicked here.

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Saddam could stay in power if he disarms fully: Powell
      Posted by The Great Satan to HAL9000
On
News/Activism 10/04/2002 12:39 AM PDT #5 of 29

Arms inspections are meaningless. It looks like Bush is blinking. For a while back there, in the weeks before the September 11 anniversary, I got the impression Bush was going to turn the tables on Saddam, expose his blackmail and let the chips fall were they may. Looking back, I guess that was just brinkmanship -- we were making overtures behind the scenes to trade exile for silence, and we needed to pile the pressure on. Now, that gambit's failed, and it looks like Bush is about to fold his hand. Of course, every one will play their respective parts: Bush will demand "intrusive" (but still meaningless) inspections, which will make him look tough; the euros and the dems will scream blue murder, which will make Bush look tough, and Saddam will hold tight and then give way at the last minute, which will make Bush look tough (except to the Arabs, who understand what Saddam is up to). Game, set and match to Saddam Hussein. This is playing out like the Gulf War denouement, and for much the same reasons.

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CNN: Sept. 11 attacks were beginning of three-phase terror offensive.
      Posted by The Great Satan to The KG9 Kid
On
News/Activism 10/03/2002 11:50 AM PDT #3 of 104

Gertz reported this in the Washington Times many moons ago.

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CONSPIRACY: The Okla. City-Sept. 11 Connection
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; All
On
News/Activism 10/03/2002 11:32 AM PDT #41 of 210

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is?

I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma."

During the Gulf War, an F-117A (not "Spirit of Oklahoma," which is a B-2, I believe) dropped such a 2,000 lb bomb on the Al Firdos bunker, incinerating over two hundred men, women and children. Iraq scored a huge propaganda victory, putting the charred corpses on display for a photo-op press conference. It lead to Powell introducing restrictions on the bombing campaign to minimize civilian casualties. However, after the war, I remember reading a report that the Pentagon knew that the bunker held women and children, but that it also knew they were the families of the Iraqi high command. Supposedly, this bombing was considered quite effective in weakening the resolve of the Iraqi regime. I suspect it also provided motivation for a lot of the revenge attacks we have seen since, such as the attempted assassination of Bush 41, the OKC bombing, and the destruction of the WTC. Saddam was still going on about the bunker bombing in his last "commentary" on the September 11 situation. It seems to be a very sore point with the Iraqi leadership.


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CONSPIRACY: The Okla. City-Sept. 11 Connection
      Posted by The Great Satan to aculeus
On
News/Activism 10/03/2002 11:11 AM PDT #31 of 210

An Essay on Hypocrisy
By Timothy McVeigh
Reprinted with permission from Media Bypass.

Parthenocarpy is interested in any existing or future rebuttals of this essay.
Please contact us
here to contribute.


Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc. Editor's note: Timothy McVeigh, sentenced to death for his role in the April 19, 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City, penned the following essay, dated "March 1998," from his cell in the administrative maximum section of the federal prison in Florence, Colo. In a preface, McVeigh wrote "I have chosen Media Bypass as a possible forum for this piece because, frankly, I realize that it is quite provocative -- and I rather doubt that any mainstream media would touch it. [Note that although the enclosed is very provocative, it was written to provoke thought -- and was not written with malevolent intent.]"

McVeigh appologized for the essay being handwritten, but noted his "current (unique) environment does not provide access to a typewriter, a word processor or a copier. (hell, I'm lucky they let me have a pen!), so I hope you understand why this is being submitted handwritten -- and I hope you can overcome this shortcoming."

McVeigh, whose interview with Media Bypass [February 1996] was picked up and dissected by the New York Times and major media outlets across the nation, also expressed concerns that reporting subsequent to this essay might be "printed out of context... but at least the original can be accurate."

A decorated U.S. Army veteran of the Persian Gulf War, McVeigh hereby offers his contribution to the debate over U.S. policy toward Iraq, a policy that McVeigh says is marked by a "deep hypocrisy."


The administration has said that Iraq has no right to stockpile chemical or biological weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") -- mainly because they have used them in the past.

Well, if that's the standard by which these matters are decided, then the U.Sl is the nation that set the precedent. The U.S. has stockpiled these same weapons (and more) for over 40 years. The U.S. claims that this was done for deterent purposes during the "Cold War" with the Soviet Union. Why, then is it invalid for Iraq to claim the same reason (deterence) -- with respect to Iraq's (real) war with, and the continued threat of, its neighbor Iran?

The administration claims that Iraq has used these weapons in the past. We've all seen the pictures that show a Kurdish woman and child frozen in death from the use of chemical weapons. But, have you ever seen these pictures juxtaposed next to pictures from Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

I suggest that one study the histories of World War I, World War II and other "regional conflicts" that the U.S. has been involved in to familiarize themselves with the use of "weapons of mass destruction."

Remember Dresden? How about Hanoi? Tripoli? Baghdad? What about the big ones-- Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (At these two locations, the U.S. killed at least 150,000 non-combatants -- mostly women and children -- in the blink of an eye. Thousands more took hours, days, weeks, or months to die.)

If Saddam is such a demon, and people are calling for war crimes charges and trials against him and his nation, why do we not hear the same cry for blood directed at those responsible for even greater amounts of "mass destruction" -- like those responsible and involved in dropping bombs on the cities mentioned above?

The truth is, the U.S. has set the standard when it comes to the stockpiling and use of weapons of mass destruction.

Hypocrisy when it comes to death of children? In Oklahoma City, it was family convenience that explained the presence of a day-care center placed between street level and the law enforcement agencies which occupied the upper floors of the building. Yet when discussion shifts to Iraq, any day-care center in a government building instantly becomes "a shield." Think about that.

(Actually, there is a difference here. The administration has admitted to knowledge of the presence of children in or near Iraqi government buildings, yet they still proceed with their plans to bomb -- saying that they cannot be held responsible if children die. There is no such proof, however, that knowledge of the presence of children existed in relation to the Oklahoma City bombing.)

When considering morality and mens rea [criminal intent] in light of these facts, I ask: Who are the true barbarians?

Yet another example of this nation's blatant hypocrisy is revealed by the polls which suggest that this nation is greatly in favor of bombing Iraq.

In this instance, the people of the nation approve of bombing government employees because they are "guilty by association" -- they are Iraqi government employees. In regard to the bombing in Oklahoma City, however, such logic is condemned.

What motivates these seemingly contradictory positions? Do people think that government workers in Iraq are any less human than those in Oklahoma City? Do they think that Iraqis don't have families who will grieve and mourn the loss of their loved ones? In this context, do people come to believe that the killing of foreigners is somehow different than the killing of Americans?

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is?

I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma."

When a U.S. plane or cruise missile is used to bring destruction to a foreign people, this nation rewards the bombers with applause and praise. What a convenient way to absolve these killers of any responsibility for the destruction they leave in their wake.

Unfortunately, the morality of killing is not so superficial. The truth is, the use of a truck, a plane, or a missile for the delivery of a weapon of mass destruction does not alter the nature of the act itself.

These are weapons of mass destruction -- and the method of delivery matters little to those on the receiving end of such weapons.

Whether you wish to admit it or not, when you approve, morally, of the bombing of foreign tartgets by the U.S. military, you are approving of acts morally equivilent to the bombing in Oklahoma City. The only difference is that this nation is not going to see any foreign casualties appear on the cover of Newsweek magazine.

It seems ironic and hypocritical that an act viciously condemned in Oklahoma City is now a "justified" response to a problem in a foreign land. Then again, the history of United States policy over the last century, when examined fully, tends to exemplify hypocrisy.

When considering the use of weapons of mass destruction against Iraq as a means to an end, it would be wise to reflect on the words of the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. His words are as true in the context of Olmstead as they are when they stand alone:
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example."

Sincerely


Timothy J. McVeigh

Copyright (c) 1998, Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc



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Anthrax case remains frustrating mystery
      Posted by The Great Satan to bonfire; EternalHope; Travis McGee; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Nogbad; Mitchell; patriciaruth
On
News/Activism 10/03/2002 10:43 AM PDT #32 of 33

Until there is another anthrax problem.........

And, truthfully, there may not be another anthrax problem for quite a while.

Saddam has WMD as insurance. They increase his scope of action. They embolden him to take chances he might not otherwise take, like making a grab for the world's oil supply in 1991, or attempting to level the WTC, Capitol and White House behind the veil of terrorism ten years later.

Oh yes, Saddam had WMD in 1991, and they saved his butt then, although it's not considered polite to mention it in public. They were relatively crude then: liquid anthrax, instead of a readily aerosolizable powder, bombs and Scuds inside of human missiles. Israel was threatened, but not the United States. We knew he had them, of course -- they wouldn't have been any use to him otherwise, would they? I remember when the first Scud missiles fell on Israel, anxiously waiting to find out if they had conventional warheads... or something else.

When the peaceniks ask us, why would Saddam use WMD, when he'd be signing his own death warrant, they actually have a point. The truth is, Saddam probably has no intention of using his WMD, or of giving them to terrorists. The problem of his WMD is that they give him impunity to do a lot of other really bad things, like recruit a bunch of al-Qaeda muscle to knock down the WTC, for example. But Bush et al are reluctant to get into the nuances of the situation. I can think of two reasons for this. The first is that it requires intelligence to understand them, and most people are dumb and need dumbed-down stories. The second is that, if you spell out plausible scenarios for Saddam to leverage his WMD and his links to terror, it becomes just a little too obvious what really happened last year. And we can't have that. Much nicer to keep things fuzzy on that score, eh?


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Anthrax case remains frustrating mystery
      Posted by The Great Satan to Jhensy; EternalHope; Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 10/03/2002 4:12 AM PDT #28 of 33

I don't know the answers here, but why has the Islamic terrorist angle been shoved under the rug?

For the same reason the administration is playing peek-a-boo with the evidence for Iraqi sponsorship of 9/11.

Team Bush understood perfectly clearly from day one that the WTC attack was not a random act by a loose-knit band of religious nuts living in caves in Afghanistan, but rather a meticulously-planned and coordinated act of revenge conceived and orchestrated by Saddam Hussein, absolute ruler of the one country we were at war with on 9/11/01. They also understood from day one that the purpose of the anthrax threats is to deter finger-pointing and retaliation against Saddam Hussein. And they understand that it's a credible threat, and there's nothing we can do about it. And if people understood these things, that would put Team Bush in a very difficult position. So for now, and perhaps forever, they have chosen to deep-six the anthrax story. After playing with a few not-very-convincing, temporary cover stories, they hit upon a brilliant idea. Gather together some loud-mouthed incompetents at the FBI. Form them into a team with a nice, loaded, PR-conscious name: "Amerithrax." Give them a briefing using Barbara Hatch Rosenberg's talking points. Aim them at USAMRIID. No more anthrax problem. Geddit?


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The Man Who Knew
      Posted by The Great Satan to Drango
On
News/Activism 10/02/2002 12:42 PM PDT #12 of 25

PBS has done outstanding documentaries on the threat of al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. Their work going back to the late nineties blows the doors off anything else I've seen. Check out the PBS Frontline web site for the best backgrounder on Saddam Hussein on the web.

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US suspicions (America in a constant state of near hysterical terrorist alert)
      Posted by The Great Satan to SJackson
On
News/Activism 10/02/2002 12:37 PM PDT #33 of 33

Why are we still accepting "guests" from Muslim countries? Doesn't that seem like a mistake?

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President, House agree to Iraq resolution
      Posted by The Great Satan to twigs
On
News/Activism 10/02/2002 12:35 PM PDT #10 of 16

Sounds vaguely familiar. And, yeah, he would would have more reason to be aware of Saddam's threat as a Jew, although there are certainly plenty of liberal Jews who don't get it. Recall, too, that abiding leftist hostility to Israel was a big factor in driving many formerly left-wing Jews into the conservative camp.

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President, House agree to Iraq resolution
      Posted by The Great Satan to IonInsights
On
News/Activism 10/02/2002 12:14 PM PDT #7 of 16

Lieberman, at least, is not doing this out of political expediency. He was out there calling for us to take on Iraq right after 9/11.

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Iraq: The Real Story-How to save face if there is no war.
      Posted by The Great Satan to SJackson
On
News/Activism 10/02/2002 12:09 PM PDT #4 of 4

If Bush decides the threat Saddam spelled out in the letter to Daschle is impossible to counter, he retains the option of playing the "tough guy" on the world stage, ramming meaningless weapons inspections through the UN, while Saddam can dance around, then play hapless Arab "victim" and submit to said meaningless weapons inspections. Bush can declare victory, and Saddam can go back to watching his 9/11 pièce de résistance on endless loop, to the accompaniment of a Cuban stogie, a shot of Johnny Walker Black, and a blowjob. Everybody will be happy, just like in '91.

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Helen Thomas "So The Bush Administration Wants To Kill Thousands?"
      Posted by The Great Satan to My Favorite Headache
On
News/Activism 10/02/2002 11:40 AM PDT #56 of 117

Country
Military / Killed
Military / Wounded
Civilian
Australia
23.365
39.803
-
Belgium
12.000
?
76.000
Brazil
943
4.222
-
Bulgaria
10.000
?
10.000
Canada
37.476
53.174
-
China
1.310.224
1.752.951
?
Czechoslovakia
10.000
?
215.000
Denmark
1.800
?
2.000
Finland
82.000
50.000
2.000
France
213.324
400.000
350.000
Germany
3.500.000
5.000.000
780.000
Greece
88.300
?
325.000
Hungary
200.000
?
290.000
India
24.338
64.354
-
Italy
242.232
66.000
152.941
Japan
1.300.000
4.000.000
672.000
Netherlands
7.900
2.860
208.000
New Zealand
10.033
19.314
-
Norway
3.000
?
7.000
Philippines
27.000
?
91.000
Poland
123.178
236.606
5.675.000
Romania
300.000
?
200.000
South Africa
6.840
14.363
-
Soviet Union
11.000.000
?
7.000.000
United Kingdom
264.443
277.077
92.673
United Kingdom (other colonies)
6.877
6.972
-
USA
292.131
671.801
6.000
Yugoslavia
305.000
425.000
1.200.000

Source: Encyclopædia Britannica


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True Believer
      Posted by The Great Satan to logician2u
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 10:12 PM PDT #3 of 34

Looks like Schippers has this reporter almost convinced -- quite an accomplishment, judging from the sarcasm and hostility that drips from the writer's pen. Note that former CIA Director R. James Woolsey has also publicly endorsed Davis' findings re OKC in the past few weeks. For those who wonder what Timothy McVeigh has to do with ME terrorism, a good starting point would be McVeigh's own Essay on Hypocrisy.

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Annan Warns US To Follow 'Multilateral Approach'
      Posted by The Great Satan to Tailgunner Joe
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 9:55 PM PDT #66 of 69

Shut up, Koffi.

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Anthrax case remains frustrating mystery
      Posted by The Great Satan to Fred Mertz; aristeides; Mitchell; dogbyte12; Alamo-Girl; Nogbad
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 9:53 PM PDT #16 of 33

Ask yourself, does Dick Cheney read this story in the paper and say to himself:
"Dammit! One year out and the FBI's still acting like the Keystone Cops. I still can't tell whether Saddam has al-Qaeda sleepers here ready to disperse anthrax all over America's cities, or if the whole thing's just down to some loose canon in the CIA. Oh, well, I guess there's no use worrying about it. We'll just attack Iraq anyway, and keep our fingers crossed."

And, once you've answered that question, you need to ask yourself two followup questions:

  1. What else could be going on?

  2. What might that explain?


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U.S. Sinks Deeper in U.N. Quicksand
      Posted by The Great Satan to the_doc
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 9:32 PM PDT #14 of 15

You're the one who is misinformed. Saddam doesn't have nukes, nor is he ever likely to get one, let alone test one, under the watchful eyes of the US and Israel. The "nuke" thing, like the "smallpox" thing, is for propagandistic purposes: neither are plausible threats from Saddam. Saddam has already made it very clear to Bush what is going to happen if he tries to retaliate against Iraq for 9-11:
THIS IS NEXT
WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX
YOU CAN NOT STOP US
Bush understands this only too well. Why do you think Saddam is still standing there, laughing at the US? Do you think he's afraid of America, the most powerful nation on earth? It sure doesn't look that way, does it? What's his secret? Why do you think the FBI is still putting on an absurd, Keystone Cops-esque charade, still publicly scratching their heads over the "mystery" of the anthrax threats? Hmmm, was it a 9/11 terrorist, or a "disgruntled white loner"? That's a real tough one, isn't it? Not.


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Iraq: Ballistic Missiles and Weapons of Mass Destruction
      Posted by The Great Satan to Ernest_at_the_Beach
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 9:06 PM PDT #8 of 9

Sen Sarbeens (MD) and Sen Imhofe (OK) were together on CNBC Capitol Watch and were discussing whether Iraq could hit the US with WMD!

Sarbannes says ridiculous, they cannot!

D'oh! I guess that whole September 11 thing went over his head. Of course Iraq can deliver WMD to the US. That's a no-brainer.


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Anthrax case remains frustrating mystery
      Posted by The Great Satan to Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 4:39 PM PDT #10 of 33

Feel Better Ignorant?



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U.S. Sinks Deeper in U.N. Quicksand
      Posted by The Great Satan to Tailgunner Joe
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 4:29 PM PDT #2 of 15

Bush is in no hurry to take on Saddam and his anthrax sleepers. The whole UN thing will kill another few months, with Bush looking like a tough guy the whole time. This is by design.

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Anthrax case remains frustrating mystery
      Posted by The Great Satan to Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 4:26 PM PDT #7 of 33

Font of Bureaucratic Ineptitude



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Anthrax case remains frustrating mystery
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl; Howlin
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 4:23 PM PDT #4 of 33

Amerithrax: is this for real, or is it a joke on the taxpayer?

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Anthrax case remains frustrating mystery
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 4:21 PM PDT #3 of 33

Clint Van Zandt is on the case. It's only a matter of time now.

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Anthrax case remains frustrating mystery
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 4:20 PM PDT #2 of 33

Never fear, Robert Mueller is here!

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Anthrax case remains frustrating mystery
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 10/01/2002 4:19 PM PDT with 32 comments


USA Today ^ | Tue Oct 1, 7:23 AM ET | Toni Locy and Laura Parker
WASHINGTON -- As the hunt for the bioterrorist who sent anthrax by mail enters its second year, investigators who have logged tens of thousands of hours in their search say they are no closer to solving the case. FBI ( news - web sites) agents face the same mystery that unfolded before a horrified nation last fall: There are five fatalities in four states and four ''weapons'' -- letters contaminated with anthrax that seems to have come from the same strain. But there are no links to a culprit and no motive.''Do I think this case will be solved? Yes,...
     
 
Democrat Leadership Should Control Rank-And-File Saddam Apologists
      Posted by The Great Satan to PhiKapMom
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 3:58 PM PDT #32 of 40



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Congressmen Take Heat for Iraq Visit
      Posted by The Great Satan to PhiKapMom
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 3:48 PM PDT #19 of 33



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George F. Will: Innocents abroad
      Posted by The Great Satan to mikenola
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 3:47 PM PDT #16 of 24



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Inspectors Press Iraq for Access
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 10:21 AM PDT #7 of 12

Links between Saddam and al-Qaeda and OBL were also commonly discussed in the media before and immediately after 9/11 (e.g. Saddam link to Bin Laden, The Guardian, February 6, 1999) but that has all been mysteriously forgetton about now. Another case of Liberal Media Self-Induced Amnesia Syndrome?

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Inspectors Press Iraq for Access
      Posted by The Great Satan to eastforker; Mitchell; Nogbad; Travis McGee; EternalHope
On
News/Activism 10/01/2002 1:11 AM PDT #3 of 12

Bringing in inspectors right after the 91 conflict the weapons were still in the open,could be found by anyone

Actually, even back then, the inspectors didn't find sh*t. Saddam's massive CBW program was only revelead after the defection of his son-in-law, Hussein Kamel, director of his "Special Weapons" program.

Here's a backgrounder on how that went down, courtesy of PBS, from a 1999 Frontline documentary:

spying on saddam
a defector's revelations: analysis
Hussein Kamel was Saddam Hussein's son-in-law.  In August  1995 , he and his brother-- who was Saddam  Hussein's other son-in-law--fled Iraq, driving their families across the border to Jordan.   Kamel  had been  the head of the military industrial commission in Iraq and  was chief developer of  Iraq's special weapons program.  He was one of the few trusted confidantes  in Saddam Hussein's inner circle.   But  Kamel had an ongoing competition and  feud with Saddam's oldest son, Uday and feared  for his continued  status, and even safety. What Kamel divulged about  Iraq's weapons programs  was shocking. Kamel described  where the  material  and facilities were, what was built, the existence of an extensive biological weapons program, the existence of a far more extensive nuclear program than was ever known, who was running Iraq's deception operations and, how they worked. Incredibly, however, six months later, Kamel returned to Iraq having become dissatisfied with his situation in Jordan.  Saddam Hussein, his father in law, had asked him back, promising that he and his family would be safe.   Within a few days of  returning , Saddam's  two daughters  were forced  to divorce Kamel and his brother.  Within hours, Kamel, his brother, his father, his sister and her children were all killed.
navigation, see below for text
SCOTT RITTER A former U.S. Marine intelligence officer, he was lead inspector for UNSCOM's Concealment and Investigations unit. He resigned in late 1998 on the heels of escalating intransigence by Iraq in its dealings with UN inspection teams.

scott ritter[Hussein Kamel's defection] added a definite sense of urgency.... Suddenly, Hussein Kamel defects, and it's out there, laid before the world: Iraq is cheating, Iraq is lying, Iraq has not complied, and not complied in a big way. What are you going to do about it?

Now, all the breaks are off. Ekeus said, 'Go,' and we started running, and almost immediately we ran into a brick wall called the United States Government, because the U.S. Government went, You want to do what? When? How?

And what we were talking about was UNSCOM moving out of the realm of just being an assessor of intelligence, to UNSCOM getting actively involved in the collection of intelligence, and using techniques and methodologies that it normally only associated with national governments, not with international organizations, not with a bunch of guys with blue hats and funny sounding names.

BARTON GELLMAN: A reporter for The Washington Post, he covered UNSCOM from the beginning and, more recently, wrote several in-depth articles on Scott Ritter and UNSCOM's involvement with western intelligence agencies.

Iraq had a big problem on its hands, because it needed a new explanation for [Kamel's revelations]. And the explanation they hit upon was, "We are shocked, shocked, to discover that under our very noses, Kamel all this time has been hiding all kinds of weapons and documentation. We've discovered it on his chicken farm, and here it is. You may have it all."

And they deliver to UNSCOM one million pages of newly-declared documents, which show a lot of biological weapons programs, which show a lot more chemical weapons programs, which show material shortfalls, which show missile stuff, which show nuclear stuff. But -- and it took a long time to do this -- as UNSCOM went through these million pages of documents, and hundreds of crates, they found that there were interesting gaps.

For example, all the biological stuff was described as research. There was nothing on weaponization, that is to say, nothing on taking what you know to be a toxic bug -- anthrax say -- and putting it into a warhead that can be used as a military weapon. That's a big part of the problem. ... So in each case, Iraq kept back something important. Usually the most important thing.

Hussein Kamel's defection tells UNSCOM that not only have they been missing something, but they've been missing a huge, huge amount of what they were supposed to be finding. Way more than they had ever suspected. Their worst nightmare scenario was eclipsed by the documents on this chicken farm, and it meant the beginning of a major new phase of biological, missile, chemical, and nuclear investigations.

RICHARD HAASS: He currently is  director of  Foreign Policy Studies at the Brookings Institution.

The dimensions of [the revelations].... That was surprising. Just like early on after the Gulf War we were shocked at the dimensions of the nuclear program -- we just had no idea of how many different avenues the Iraqis were pursuing to enrich uranium and the like.

So when Hussein Kamel came out with his information, again, it was on a scale that was, quite honestly, larger than people like me thought.

It gave UNSCOM a real lease on life. See, before this defection, there were those who were saying, "There's no reason to do this. You're looking in dry holes," and the rest. And when this came out, people who supported UNSCOM could go, "Look, we told you. More than ever, we now need an intrusive inspection regime. These guys will not fess up voluntarily." So it actually became a very important legitimizing development for UNSCOM.

ROBIN WRIGHT: A former Middle East correspondent for the Sunday Times of London, she now covers global issues for the Los Angeles Times.

Before Hussein Kamel's defection, in August of 1995, you write that Saddam was beating the West in some way, and UNSCOM. How?

robin wrightIn 1995, Saddam Hussein actually appeared to be winning in his strategy of cheat and retreat. He had actually managed to hide so many of his weapons that many of the U.N. weapons inspectors thought that he had turned over most of them, and were prepared to make that kind of recommendation. And it was only on the defection of his son-in-law and cousin [Kamel] that the international community realized how much he really still had. The whole crisis actually might have ended at that point, if it hadn't been for that very ... defection. ...

What was revealed in Kamel's defection?

Kamel's defection led to two important disclosures. One was the information he provided Western intelligence agencies. But, secondly, Saddam Hussein knew that he was about to be caught, and so he took weapons inspectors down to Kamel's chicken farm, and said that they'd only just discovered these containers full of documents about weapons of mass destruction. Of course, feigned his own ignorance, and blamed it all on Kamel.

What changed for Saddam after that?

Well, it became apparent that he had hidden an extraordinary amount of material, and from that point on UNSCOM was, again, a going concern.

The quantity was staggering. It took the U.N. weapons inspectors months and months and months just to go through and translate every -- and create a database for what was in those papers. It revealed that Saddam Hussein had also hidden far more than anyone ever realized he had, to begin with. This really was the critical turning point of the entire eight years in trying to deal with Saddam Hussein. It put the U.N. weapons program back on track.



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IRAQI A MISSING LINK
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks; Mitchell; Nogbad; EternalHope; Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 09/30/2002 3:45 AM PDT #7 of 10

A search of one of his apartments turned up telephone records linking him to suspects in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing as well as a 1994 Philippine-based plot to blow up civilian airlines over the Pacific Ocean.

Presumably, that would be Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the skirt-chasing, disco-dancing "Islamic radical" who recently appeared on al-Jazeera taking credit for the planning of 9/11.

Mohammed is a close associate of Ramzi Yousef, the in-country ringleader for the original, 1993 attempt to topple the WTC. A shadowy figure with multiple identities, Yousef arrived in the United States in 1992 carrying an Iraqi passport, and quickly made contact with a rag-tag bunch of islamacist malcontents in New York and New Jersey. He steered their rather unambitious terroristic ambitions, which involved pipe-bombing Jews in Brooklyn, into a much more ambitious plot to topple both towers of the WTC, with the hope of killing 200,000 people. Yousef and the other plotters were apprehended, except for one, Abdul Rahman Yasin, who was inadvertantly released by the FBI and took the first plane to Baghdad, where he still resides.

Khalid Sheik Mohammed was never indicted in the '93 WTC bombing. His links to Yousef were discovered later, after Yousef was apprehended in the Philippines. It emerged that they had hatched a plot, "Project Bojinka," to blow up a dozen airliners in flight on the same day. The Clinton administration's focus, however, was not fighting a widening war on terror, but rather on chalking up victories against local players in court. Eight years after the failed bombing of the WTC, Mohammed got to see his dream realized, as he watched both of the hundred-story towers come crashing down in front of the eyes of the whole world last September 11.


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The Four Feathers: Colonialism Unplugged
      Posted by The Great Satan to SeenTheLight
On
News/Activism 09/29/2002 11:48 PM PDT #15 of 18

Indeed. Tony Blair's a Victorian at heart, I think. He knows these Mohammedan types are up to no good, and the only language they understand is a bayonet up the arse.

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The Four Feathers: Colonialism Unplugged
      Posted by The Great Satan to SeenTheLight
On
News/Activism 09/29/2002 11:20 PM PDT #8 of 18

The Englishmen are presented as the heroes of the film, gentlemen to the end, while the natives arent terribly noble. In fact, for the most part, theyre downright savage, and are referred to as such many times in the film. At one point, in a speech sending the British soldiers off to war, a priest describes their foes as fanatical Mohammedans.

I like the sound of this.


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The Four Feathers: Colonialism Unplugged
      Posted by The Great Satan to SeenTheLight
On
News/Activism 09/29/2002 11:12 PM PDT #4 of 18

Seen it yet? Is it worth a look?

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The U.S., Iraq and worst-case scenarios (Barf alert)
      Posted by The Great Satan to clintonh8r
On
News/Activism 09/29/2002 11:05 PM PDT #6 of 10

"What's the worst case scenario, Kenneth?"

Saddam Hussein flees Baghdad, democracy sweeps Iraq and Iran, Clinton's malfeasance over the WTC bombing and OKC is exposed, and the GOP wins a clean sweep in the Senate and the House. Dan wakes up in a cold sweat at night, just dreaming about it.


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Pre-Emptive Strike? Sorry, but it is too late for that.
      Posted by The Great Satan to Richard Axtell
On
News/Activism 09/29/2002 8:42 PM PDT #2 of 11

The truth is, the media have it exactly upside down. Far from struggling to link Saddam to 9/11 and the subsequent anthrax threats, the administration is working overtime to postpone the day when the penny drops and people finally twig what a pickle Saddam has put us in. Far from Iraq being a distraction from the War on Terror, the "War on Terror" was invented as a delaying tactic, to postpone dealing with the *real * war, the war that has been ongoing since 1991 -- the war with Saddam Hussein.

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10-Month bin Laden Mystery: Dead or Alive?
      Posted by The Great Satan to Pokey78
On
News/Activism 09/29/2002 8:23 PM PDT #20 of 36

Bin Laden is almost certainly dead. Even if he's alive, he's out of the loop, which means he's no threat. He doesn't have magic powers -- basically, he was a just recruitment and PR guy. If he's not doing recruitment and PR, he's irrelevant. Bye-bye, Binnie.

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The Case for Killing Arafat
      Posted by The Great Satan to SJackson
On
News/Activism 09/29/2002 3:33 AM PDT #14 of 14

Arafat is increasingly irrelevant, thanks to the successful Powell-Sharon "isolation" policy. The truth is, Arafat has been legitimated by Barak, by Clinton, by the EU, and by the Nobel Committee. He is also head of a quasi-state. All those things make simply turning around and killing Arafat a very questionable proposition, poltically. Personally, I like the current strategy just fine. We can always kill him later, if it seems appropriate.

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DemocRats take lead in MidTerms (Newsweek report)
      Posted by The Great Satan to upchuck
On
News/Activism 09/28/2002 3:44 PM PDT #25 of 47

I believe we are enjoined from posting Newsweak articles in full, as a result of the Washington Post lawsuit.

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Prediction-Saddam to announce to world that sleeper cells will release WMD upon his arrest or death!
      Posted by The Great Satan to M. Peach
On
News/Activism 09/28/2002 11:37 AM PDT #47 of 73

He'll leave that to his Islamicist buddies. Gotta maintain deniability. In fact, the Islamacists have already announced that any attack on Iraq will constitute provocation for more 9-11s.

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FBI Agent: Moussaoui Might Crash Plane Into WTC
      Posted by The Great Satan to goldstategop
On
News/Activism 09/28/2002 3:33 AM PDT #3 of 32

Political correctness strikes again. They didn't want to hurt his feelings. He's black, you know...

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U.S Plan Requires Inspection Access to All Sites
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/28/2002 1:07 AM PDT #2 of 10

But the Bush administration's resolution ran into stiff resistance today from France, which has balked at Washington's insistence that the resolution pave the way for an American military campaign if Mr. Hussein refuses to cooperate.

Jacques is for an "optional" plan, where the UN invites Saddam to disclose his WMD if he feels like it. Way to go, Jacques. Good thinking.


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Saddam need not be captured for regime change: US
      Posted by The Great Satan to stilts; EternalHope; Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 09/28/2002 12:37 AM PDT #10 of 14

Killing Saddam Hussein, or at very least bombing him out of his palaces and into hiding -- which would also achieve the stated aim of regime change -- is, militarily, a trivially easy task for the United States. The problem is, we are afraid of what will happen if we kill him. And no wonder:

THIS IS NEXT
WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX
YOU CAN NOT STOP US


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Saddam need not be captured for regime change: US
      Posted by The Great Satan to stilts
On
News/Activism 09/28/2002 12:32 AM PDT #9 of 14

In one sense, it is good for Saddam to think he can survive even if he loses as it may serve as somewhat of a deterent to use WMD. During Desert Storm he did not use these weapons for fear of the US response.

You got that bass-ackwards. We didn't take him out, for fear of his response.


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Some Say Deterrence Is Enough
      Posted by The Great Satan to dennisw
On
News/Activism 09/28/2002 12:29 AM PDT #9 of 15

Saddam's been there, done that already, viz:

Contradicting Some U.S. Officials, 3 Scientists Call Anthrax Powder High-Grade


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Streaming video of the ranting Mullah of Gaza Strip
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl; Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/28/2002 12:26 AM PDT #7 of 15

Religion of Peace bump

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Streaming video of the ranting Mullah of Gaza Strip
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/28/2002 12:23 AM PDT #6 of 15

This is one whacked-out religion.

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Streaming video of the ranting Mullah of Gaza Strip
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz
On
News/Activism 09/28/2002 12:23 AM PDT #5 of 15

Root causes of terrorism bump

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Beyond Deterrence: What are we waiting for?
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Miss Marple; Nogbad
On
News/Activism 09/27/2002 2:11 PM PDT #10 of 10

ping

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***The Signs Are There: War With Iraq Is Coming SOON***
      Posted by The Great Satan to mhking
On
News/Activism 09/27/2002 1:48 PM PDT #148 of 208

He strikes me as more the, "I'm gonna die anyway, I might as well take you with me" type of guy...

My guess is he'll take the villa in Algiers over personal annihilation. But, you're correct that we can't count on that. The stakes are way too high for that. That is why we won't be confronting Saddam in Baghdad any time soon. Wouldn't be prudent. That will be left for the end of the campaign, once we are ready on the home front.


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***The Signs Are There: War With Iraq Is Coming SOON***
      Posted by The Great Satan to The Wizard
On
News/Activism 09/27/2002 1:39 PM PDT #140 of 208

Military action will start a few months from now. Bush is quite happy for Congress and the UN to spin their wheels for a few months, kicking this around: he is not in a hurry, and so long as he looks strong and there is no loss of momentum, he'll be happy to keep this on a slow boil.

The campaign will most likely start with token airstrikes against supposed WMD sites, but the real meat of it will be a fairly conventional, Afghanistan-style campaign to bring the North and South No-Fly zones under allied control. That's territory where Saddam's ability to project power is already highly limited by allied overflights, and has been for ten years. The people there don't like Saddam one bit.

Expect a year-long campaign, timed to climax about six months before the next Presidential election. The rate-limiting step will be establishing the civil defense infrastructure to protect against the anthrax retaliation Saddam threatened in the Daschle letter. We won't take on Saddam directly until we have some confidence on that score.

If North and South Iraq are already under allied-sponsored governments in 2004, kicking Baghdad out from under Saddam should be a trivial matter. Just go public on the anthrax, park a B52 bomber 20,000 feet over the city, and announce that any CBW retaliation will be met with nuclear annihilation. If there are any civilians or troops left in Baghdad by this stage of the war, they will be flushed within a few hours of this announcement. Saddam, a king without a kindom, will surrender soon after. Game over.


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Cleric says Qaeda will strike back
      Posted by The Great Satan to sarcasm
On
News/Activism 09/27/2002 3:05 AM PDT #2 of 5

Why isn't this person in jail?

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Who Killed Homer?
      Posted by The Great Satan to cornelis
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 11:01 PM PDT #20 of 25

CLASSICS PAGES (fun stuff)

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Fighting Street to Street
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Mitchell; Nogbad
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 10:49 PM PDT #40 of 51

Oh, missed that. Kristof. Of "Mr. Z" fame. Maybe Barbara Rosenberg gave him advice on Iraq too. I heard she calls hereself an "expert."

This ludicrous propaganda piece should clue you in as to why Kristof was such a sucker for Rosenberg's conspiracy theory. Imagine: in the pages of the soi-disant "newspaper of record," Kristof proposed that Dr. Steven Hatfill attended Cipro parties at a secret CIA safe house in Virginia, where his handlers passed him vials of anthrax to test out on the US population after 9/11. Seriously.

Kristof understands where the anthrax comes from, but his tongue is so far up Hussein's butt, he'll willingly trash his credibility as a journalist to cover up for dear old Uncle Saddam. Walter Duranty was a piker compared to this guy.


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Albright laments rash 'exuberance' over Iraq
      Posted by The Great Satan to tomball
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 7:20 PM PDT #42 of 63

Not Very Diplomatic
Report: Albright Livid
When Mistaken for Maid


Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was not amused when some Albanian diplomats mistook her for a hotel cleaning lady. (Ivan Sekretarev/AP Photo)
 
By Eric Wagner
ABCNEWS.com
W A S H I N G T O N, Feb. 4

When a bunch of Albanians mistook Madeleine Albright for a hotel cleaning lady, the secretary of state spewed a most-undiplomatic, and untranslatable, stream of invective, a newspaper reports.

     A State Department spokesman wouldnt comment on the New York Daily News report that Albright was mistaken for a maid during last years peace negotiations for Kosovo in Rambouillet, France.
     Albright at first wasnt recognized by the Albanian delegation when she walked into their room, it said.
     One member of the delegation, who didnt realize who she was, and probably thinking she was some cleaning lady because it was after midnight, simply said to her, Give us five minutes and please go away, recalled Albanian diplomat Dugagjin Gorani in War on Europe, a British TV program.
     Instead, Albright exploded in rage, swearing at the group, according to the reports.
     Mrs. Albright started using explicit language which the translators never could translate into Albanian, says Veton Surroi, another member of the delegation.


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Tests of Daschle anthrax reveal Iraq trademark: report
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 7:14 PM PDT #34 of 35

Terror Tests
Additive Search Requires More Study

By Gary Matsumoto
ABCNEWS.com

W A S H I N G T O N, Nov. 1 A group of military scientists is feverishly examining the microscopic spores of anthrax sent to Sen. Tom Daschle for clues to a mystery that could have profound implications for the United States and its ongoing war on terror: Who made it?

Contained in the deadly sample that arrived in Daschle's office on Oct. 15 are additives used to make the normally inert bacteria a better killer, and exactly which additives they are could point investigators in the direction of the anthrax's source, and from there, perhaps, to who sent it.

Biological weapons experts say producing potent samples like the spores in the Daschle letter require advanced techniques that leave tell-tale markers to who made it the known manufacturers of biological agents all have different ingredients and methods for creating their wares.

ABCNEWS reported last week that initial tests on the Daschle letter discovered the presence of one of those important additives, bentonite, an anti-clumping agent that makes the spores float through the air and into the lungs more easily, and which United Nations weapons inspectors have associated with Iraq.

This issue is critical. Making anthrax deadlier by mixing it with such additives is a trademark of sophisticated, well-funded, government programs, which could point to state-sponsorship of the mail attacks. Finding bentonite or silica, a similar additive, is one of the few solid leads investigators would have on the possible source of the contaminated letters that have been showing up in mailrooms from Florida to New York City.

But there is dispute over what the additives are. The White House and the head of the Army's biological laboratories in Ft. Detrick, Md., have denied bentonite was present, and said even if it was, it would not necessarily point to Iraq as the culprit.

They said investigators have not ruled out domestic or foreign sources, and, experts in the field note, the equipment used to treat anthrax with bentonite is available on the open market, which could lead investigators to a suspect in the United States.

But mineralogists suggest the matter of the bentonite may not be closed

Checking Ingredients

The government's top labs have run the Daschle anthrax sample through a series of tests. An electron microscope study found the Daschle spores looked "virtually identical" to those found in Iraq by U.N. weapons inspectors in 1994. But after subjecting it to a sophisticated X-ray test last week, the Army concluded it contained no bentonite, a clay comprised of several minerals, including aluminum.

For the Army, no aluminum equaled no bentonite.

"One of its principal ingredients is aluminum," said Maj. Gen. John Parker, overall commander of the military laboratories doing the analyses. "And I will say to you that we see no aluminum presence in the sample."

That assessment may prove correct, but not based solely on the absence of aluminum. ABCNEWS has learned that at least two European chemical companies make a processed, aluminum-free bentonite. Mineralogist William Moll, who has mainly worked in private industry, says these synthetic bentonites are used as "free-flow agents" that give dry powders a "fluid" or "slippery" quality as the particles float through the air. The existence of such bentonite means further tests are needed to rule out the presence of the troubling additive.

One of America's leading experts on mineral clays, Hayden Murray, a professor emeritus of geology at Indiana University, says a company based in Munich, Germany, removes aluminum from bentonite to create a finer, more refined additive than one could make from the bentonite deposits found in Iraq.

Murray says at least two American companies mine such high-quality bentonite, but the German company has a much larger customer base in the Middle East.

Last week, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer confirmed the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology found another additive silica in the Daschle anthrax. Like bentonite, silica is used in pharmaceutical powders all over the world and would make the anthrax float through the air more effectively.

When the United States was still in the biological weapons business back in the 1960s, U.S. scientists experimented with anthrax, silica and bentonite. The former Soviet Union also used silica in powders with anthrax.

Spray Dryers

In fact, federal officials say many countries have the materials, the technology, and the know-how to put pharmaceutical powders to deadly use. Yet as far as anyone knows, only the United States and the former Soviet Union have actually produced an anthrax weapon in powdered form.

But Iraq, for one, is believed to have been trying. In the 1980s, Baghdad purchased three spray dryers from a Danish company for research purposes. In 1988 and 1989, Iraqi officials asked the Danish company that manufactured the dryers to help identify companies that would sell silica, as well as two other drying agents, kaolin and maltodextrin.

Like many items employed in the production of germ weapons, the dryers and the chemicals were "dual use." Spray dryers, for instance, are commonly used to make powdered milk. U.N. weapons inspectors say the Iraqi dryers were eventually used to make biological weapons.

The FBI apparently has its own suspicions about the use of spray dryers in the germ attacks. When ABCNEWS phoned the company that sold Iraq the dryers, officials there said the FBI had called the previous day.

'Pure Spore' Clues

The concentration of spores in the Daschle sample is another potential clue scientists can use to find its source.

In creating a germ weapon, microbiologists must induce bacteria like anthrax into a spore state, a hardier form of the cells that protects them against extreme temperatures and other environmental stress. Spores can be induced in various ways, but American scientists discovered one of the best techniques in the '70s, years after abandoning its offensive biological warfare program. Iraq improved on the U.S. method, creating a preparation that was almost 100 percent spores.

That fits Parker's description of what he saw when he looked at the Daschle sample. "I have looked at the specimen under the microscope, both the electron microscope and the scanning microscope, and I can say that the sample was pure spores," he said. Parker also said the spores were "uniform in size," and "highly concentrated." In an amateur preparation, experts like former Soviet biological warfare scientist Ken Alibek would expect to see a mixture of anthrax organisms in different stages of development. "Like a mix of seeds and plants," says Alibek.

At times, the language of bacteriology sounds almost botanical. When an oval-shaped spore "germinates" it grows into a rod, which looks like a short pretzel stick. Microbiologists refer to this as the organism's "vegetative" state. Alibek would expect a "home-brewed" anthrax preparation to look like a hodgepodge of spores and vegetative cells.

'Ted Kaczynski With a Petri Dish'

But federal officials say even the level of purity in the Daschle sample is no proof that a foreign state is connected to the attacks. Instead, a theory favored by some federal investigators might be described as "Ted Kaczynski with a petri dish." According to this view, "a disgruntled Ph.D." here in America could have launched this wave of bioterror with a "well-equipped laboratory" and a tiny speck of virulent anthrax, which is quite simple to nurture into large colonies. That is, if he get his hands on the right strain. America's biowarfare scientists remain divided on this point. The trick is still making an effective powder, which requires more than an advanced degree in microbiology. Bill Patrick, former chief of "product development" at Fort Detrick in the waning days of the U.S. offensive biological weapons program, believes the small amount of anthrax recovered so far, apparently just 2 grams in the Daschle letter, points to "a small operation."

Patrick and another Fort Detrick veteran, Col. David Franz, both say they'd expect state-supported bioterrorists to use larger amounts of anthrax in more ambitious attacks. For Franz, the threshold of proof for state involvement is 50 kilograms, or 100 pounds of anthrax, an amount that could cause, under perfect conditions, Hiroshima-like casualties.

Former U.N. weapons inspector Richard Spertzel disputes this logic. He maintains that the use of a small amount of anthrax in these attacks does not prove the perpetrators only possessed a small amount. "Look at what they've accomplished with a few letters," says Spertzel. "They didn't need to use more."

Another dissenter from the prevailing conventional wisdom, Alan Zelicoff of Sandia National Laboratories, admits that a "disgruntled Ph.D." could get a hold of a virulent anthrax strain and culture it, but "he wouldn't know the aerosol physics to create the powder. This is a complex engineering problem," says Zelicoff.

Sources privy to the federal investigation say the tests on the Daschle sample are still under way. Even if these tests ultimately find bentonite, as well as silica, they will not prove Iraqi involvement. In the language of criminology, the manufacturing techniques, and the additives in the aerosol powders, may add up to a known modus operandi, but they are not "fingerprints."

Although Spertzel is convinced that the accumulating circumstantial evidence is "narrowing the field," he concedes that investigators may never know with certainty the identity of the terrorists behind the germ attacks.

"I don't think that we're going to see a smoking gun that's going to implicate this country, or that company," says Spertzel. "That's the hard thing to swallow with these anonymous attacks. You want to defend yourself, but from whom?"

A Followup on Bentonite

On Nov. 1, 2001, ABCNEWS.com ran the report above regarding the U.S. Army's analysis of the anthrax material sent to the office of Sen. Thomas Daschle. The report included the U.S. Army's statement that the sample had been found to contain no aluminum and therefore could be concluded to contain no bentonite.

The story also reported on suggestions that an unnamed German company might make a processed, aluminum-free bentonite. That company has contacted ABCNEWS.com and said that while it does remove some aluminum from bentonite, it does not remove all aluminum.  



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Albright laments rash 'exuberance' over Iraq
      Posted by The Great Satan to tomball
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 6:47 PM PDT #33 of 63

Clinton: Iraq has abused its last chance
CNN ^ | December 16, 1998

Posted on 09/14/2002 8:43 PM Pacific by The Great Satan

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- From the Oval Office, President Clinton told the nation Wednesday evening why he ordered new military strikes against Iraq.

The president said Iraq's refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors presented a threat to the entire world.

"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said.

Operation Desert Fox, a strong, sustained series of attacks, will be carried out over several days by U.S. and British forces, Clinton said.

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton.

Clinton also stated that, while other countries also had weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors.

'Without delay, diplomacy or warning'

The Iraqi leader was given a final warning six weeks ago, Clinton said, when Baghdad promised to cooperate with U.N. inspectors at the last minute just as U.S. warplanes were headed its way.

"Along with Prime Minister (Tony) Blair of Great Britain, I made it equally clear that if Saddam failed to cooperate fully we would be prepared to act without delay, diplomacy or warning," Clinton said.

The president said the report handed in Tuesday by Richard Butler, head of the United Nations Special Commission in charge of finding and destroying Iraqi weapons, was stark and sobering.

Iraq failed to cooperate with the inspectors and placed new restrictions on them, Clinton said. He said Iraqi officials also destroyed records and moved everything, even the furniture, out of suspected sites before inspectors were allowed in.

"Instead of inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors," Clinton said.

"In halting our airstrikes in November, I gave Saddam a chance -- not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance, the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed," the president explained.

Strikes necessary to stunt weapons programs

Clinton said he made the decision to strike Wednesday with the unanimous agreement of his security advisors.

Timing was important, said the president, because without a strong inspection system in place, Iraq could rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear programs in a matter of months, not years.

"If Saddam can cripple the weapons inspections system and get away with it, he would conclude the international community, led by the United States, has simply lost its will," said Clinton. "He would surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction."

Clinton also called Hussein a threat to his people and to the security of the world.

"The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people," Clinton said.

Such a change in Baghdad would take time and effort, Clinton said, adding that his administration would work with Iraqi opposition forces.

Clinton also addressed the ongoing impeachment crisis in the White House.

"Saddam Hussein and the other enemies of peace may have thought that the serious debate currently before the House of Representatives would distract Americans or weaken our resolve to face him down," he said.

"But once more, the United States has proven that although we are never eager to use force, when we must act in America's vital interests, we will do so."


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Tests of Daschle anthrax reveal Iraq trademark: report
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 6:23 PM PDT #29 of 35

Unresolved. Ari Fleischer was asked about it, and he described the analysis as "opinionated," or some such term. He said that the analysis showed no aluminum, which is indicative of no bentonite. ABC subsequently reported that some of the highest grades of bentonite don't contain aluminum.

Various rumors and tidbits have appeared related to the weaponization signature of the anthrax sent to Daschle since then. The last I recall seeing was in Newsweek, which reported that the weaponization process was not previously known to the US, that it was the highest quality they had ever seen, and there was a "surprise" ingredient, which authorities would not name. Personally, I think you can take all that with a large grain of salt.

Basically, the administration has decided it's not a good thing for the public to know what the analysis revealed at this time. You may infer what you like from that.


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Doctors Blast Feds' Smallpox Plan
      Posted by The Great Satan to Tumbleweed_Connection
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 6:16 PM PDT #32 of 43

The feds' post-attack vaccination plan makes perfect sense. It makes sense for responding to an anthrax attack, though -- not a smallpox attack. Smallpox is a stalking horse for anthrax. Can't talk about anthrax too much -- people would connect the dots. Ergo, we prepare for anthrax while talking about smallpox.

Amusingly, the CDC director gave the game away the other day, with a slip of the tongue in an interview with PBS. See GETTING READY.


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Scott Ritter - What turned the hawkish Iraq weapons inspector into a dove?
      Posted by The Great Satan to finnman69
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 12:54 PM PDT #11 of 69

Hell hath no fury like a warrior scorned. Remember Ritter's doppelganger, Timothy McVeigh. Remember Ajax in The Iliad. I'm sure Ritter's quite sincere, and also quite mad.

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OSAMA BIN LADIN AND IRAQ
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 09/26/2002 12:49 PM PDT with 5 comments


Iraq News ^ | FEBRUARY 10, 1999 | Laurie Mylroie
I. OSAMA BIN LADIN AND IRAQ, CORRIERE DELLA SERA, FEB 1 II. OSAMA BIN LADIN AND IRAQ, NEW YORK POST, FEB 1 III. OSAMA BIN LADIN AND IRAQ [1], GUARDIAN, FEB 6 IV. OSAMA BIN LADIN AND IRAQ [2], GUARDIAN, FEB 6 The NYT, yesterday, reported that no traces of the VX precursor, Empta, nor its degradation product, Empa, could be found in 13 samples taken from the al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant and its grounds last Oct. That work was supervised by the chairman of the Boston U. chemistry department, hired by the law firm representing Salih Idris, owner of...
     
 
Saddam link to Bin Laden
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 12:45 PM PDT #2 of 10

Sorry: the publication date should read: February 6, 1999.

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Saddam link to Bin Laden
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 09/26/2002 12:43 PM PDT with 9 comments


The Guardian ^ | Julian Borger
Terror chief 'offered asylum' in Iraq? US says dealings step up danger of chemical weapons attacks Saddam Hussein's regime has opened talks with Osama bin Laden, bringing closer the threat of a terrorist attack using chemical, biological or nuclear weapons, according to US intelligence sources and Iraqi opposition officials. The key meeting took place in the Afghan mountains near Kandahar in late December. The Iraqi delegation was led by Farouk Hijazi, Baghdad's ambassador in Turkey and one of Saddam's most powerful secret policemen, who is thought to have offered Bin Laden asylum in Iraq.The Saudi-born fundamentalist's response is unknown. He...
     
 
Saddam resists a push into exile
      Posted by The Great Satan to aristeides
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 12:20 PM PDT #18 of 26

For Saddam to accept this kind of deal, we have to provide him guarantees that he can trust.

There are no guarantees in this life. Only incentives.


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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 12:18 PM PDT #32 of 32

We CANNOT publicly link Saddam to the anthrax attack while there is still hope that he can be persuaded to accept exile instead of death. The American public would not accept letting him get away with the attack, and it would set an unacceptable precedent.

From Saddam resists a push into exile:

Floating the exile idea is attractive to Washington because it might reduce Saddam's sense of desperation, a concern among Pentagon officials worried that he would unleash a chemical or biological attack if he believed his regime faced imminent destruction by U.S. forces.
It would be much harder to say that out loud if we all understood Saddam was author of 9/11 and the anthrax blackmailer, of course. Also:
Administration officials made clear this week that they could accept such an outcome as an alternative to war, but the administration does not want to appear to be the originator of the idea, for fear that it would kill any chance Saddam would accept.
Yeah, right. I think we can figure out the real reason. I love how they push this BS with a straight face, like we're all stupid or something.

I disagree with you that the public won't accept letting Saddam off the hook for 9/11. The public is realistic. They don't want to die, and they know perfectly well that we sometimes have to cut deals with heads of state that we wouldn't tolerate with common criminals. At the same time, it would be much easier for them to accept this if they didn't understand the truth, or held it only in some vague, deliberately fuzzed-up ambiguous way. This, BTW, is part of the calculation in the negotiation with Saddam: he understands that, if he leaves now, Bush is well-placed to sell it as a victory to the public. If Saddam forces Bush's hand on exposing the whole situation, Bush may be less inclined to accept exile in an end game two years from now, when we have defenses against anthrax.

All these calculations, all these different audiences to play to...


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Saddam resists a push into exile
      Posted by The Great Satan to ex-Texan; okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Miss Marple; ...
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 12:04 PM PDT #15 of 26

Administration officials made clear this week that they could accept such an outcome as an alternative to war, but the administration does not want to appear to be the originator of the idea, for fear that it would kill any chance Saddam would accept.

Or, to put it more realistically, because people might come to understand that we have been successfully blackmailed into letting Saddam off the hook for 9-11 by his subsequent threat to anthrax the US population.

The people will accept this, BTW, because nobody wants to die. We f***ed up big time (or rather, Bill Clinton f***ed up), and now we have to live with the consequences. But the atmospherics will have to be handled delicately. Hence the Amerithrax hijinks -- and the nonsensical stories about waiting on snapshots secretely taken by Czech emigres to decide whether or not Mohammed Atta did or did not meet Iraqi agent Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani. Like the replicants in Blade Runner, the public needs a "pillow" for its emotions, and Bush is providing one.


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In Iraq's arsenal: Nature's deadliest poison
      Posted by The Great Satan to Billthedrill
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 11:44 AM PDT #22 of 38

Thanks for posting. Good info.

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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to freeperfromnj
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 11:34 AM PDT #29 of 32

Assuming that enough of the weaponized version is already here in the U.S., at what point do you believe the operatives will unleash it? After our preemptive strike against Iraq?

Only after we go after Saddam personally, and he has nothing to lose because he is either dead or obviously soon-to-be-dead. As with any WMD-based deterrent strategy, such as the MAD stalemate between the US and the Soviets, it's pretty much an all-or-nothing deal.

So, IMO, Bush is not going to start out any military campaign by going for the jugular. That "wouldn't be prudent." He's going to take his sweet time -- just as he's been taking his sweet time with the build-up -- and he's going to squeeze Saddam in a vice, just like we did the Taliban, and like our ally Sharon is squeezing Arafat.

Take a look at this picture:

Those shaded regions are the No-Fly Zones, where Saddam's power is already limited. If you wanted to kill a year or two taking over Iraq without putting Saddam in a box too soon, how would you go about it?


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Rice: Iraq providing shelter, chemical weapons help to al-Qaida
      Posted by The Great Satan to Wordsmith
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 11:24 AM PDT #88 of 92

Assuming this is true, why the elevated Iraq talk now? If Bush is genuinely open to not moving against Saddam for another year, the current Administration campaign to increase the attention on him doesn't seem to make sense.

I've been fooled before, and you're getting fooled right now -- these things take much longer to play out than you think. Talk now is necessary to keep up the Big Mo, after a summer of saying nothing. If I had a dollar for every post I've seen over the last year predicting an attack on the next full moon....

Militarily, nothing is going to happen until the new year. It will be jaw-jaw in Congress and the UN for the next few months. Bush's opening position is he wants an answer in "weeks" -- but you know how opening positions work. My guess is we'll get congessional authorizations and a UN resolution towards the end of this year, and we'll dick around with Iraq over the resolution for a few months.

In the face of Iraqi "intransigence," Bush will launch a military camapign next spring. There will be token strikes on alleged WMD facilities, but the main push will probably be on the periphery of Iraq. My guess is that the military strategy will be a mixture of what we've seen put into play against the Taliban in Afghanistan and against Arafat in Ramallah. We'll slowly and methodically isolate Hussein, while we work with local opposition to gradually take over the country. Again, I would guess we are going to put him in a vice, tearing off the territory under the Northern and Southern no-fly zones, where his ability to project power is already limited. We'll set up interim governments and forward bases as we conquer the territory.

All this will be the work of 2003 and 2004. It will amply fill the time we need to build up our civil defenses. Bush will look strong. Saddam will look weak, just like Arafat does now, as his dominion shrinks to a strip of land around Baghdad. At the same time, he'll still have an incentive to stay in the game. If he doesn't take exile by late 2004, that's when I'd push it to the brink, assuming we have our defenses in place domestically. If necessary, he could be flushed at that time by the simple expedient of parking a B52 nuclear bomber over Baghdad and going public on the anthrax. That will clear the place out in no time. Game over.


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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 11:00 AM PDT #27 of 32

Thanks. Good summary and unpacking of my position. I'm a little amazed how many times I have to explain this, but wishful thinking is a force to be reckoned with.

The key "lesson" of 9/11, which seems to have somehow escaped most people, is that someone very ruthless, patient and ingenious, someone with a passionate need for vengeance against the United States, has revealed they can project force into the US mainland without fear of retaliation.

9/11 wasn't a random natural disaster, although the comforting myth of a loose-knit band of Richard Reid-style whackos spontaneously self-assembling the plot almost makes it seem like one. The aggressor has a bigger plan which includes, at minimum, back-end security for himself, and it behooves us to figure out what that plan is.


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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to freeperfromnj
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 10:46 AM PDT #26 of 32

Knowing what we know now, dispersal through the mail system obviously will not work.

It's one year out, and you still haven't twigged that there was no attack through the mail system, so we know no such thing. Somebody sent the US threats to use anthrax "next," with samples of highly-weaponized anthrax to show earnest of intent. That is all. Read the frigging letters.

What delivery means could they possibly use to produce such mass casualties?

Surreptitiously tipping a briefcase of the stuff onto the NYC subway tracks, for example. That would render the subway unusable for years or decades -- which implies the total economic loss of New York City (several trillion dollars worth of real estate). Casualties would be in the hundred of thousands to millions (four million people ride the NYC subway every day). If it happened today, there would also be total social breakdown, after the first few hundred people started showing up at St. Vincent's with respiratory problems. Four million people racing a 24-hour death clock to get treatment -- not a pretty sight.

Bush understands this. He understood it last year. If you want to understand what's really going on, behind the sentimental, hand-wringing charade you see played out on our TV screens, you better understand it, too.

Anthrax Scenarios

Anthrax Fact Sheet


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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 10:22 AM PDT #25 of 32

What is your purpose?

To wake people up. This is not a fairy tale we are living in.


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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 3:32 AM PDT #16 of 32

In addition, besides words, we have movement of troops and equipment into forward positions, arrests of people all over the globe, and the prodding of the UN into action. Those are actions, not words.

There's a term for this. It's called saber-rattling. It's what China does with Taiwan, year in and year out. Saddam has rattled his saber, levelling the World Trade Center and sending us samples of weaponized anthrax to cogitate upon. Now it's our turn.

The nature of the game of chicken is to see who blinks first. Until somebody blinks, the outcome is unknown. As of right now, Bush could blink in any number of ways. Notice that he's still funning the public over Prague, and over the anthrax letters. If and when he stops funning us over those things, you can figure we're going to take it to the brink. Until that happens, there is no guarantee that there won't be some macho posturing, followed by Saddam's faux capitulation to meaningless weapons inspections and a nod and wink from Dubya that says, "Okay, you had your fun on September 11, let's say no more about it."

Saddam seems quietly confident -- surprisingly so, given the leader of the world's sole "hyperpower" has targeted him for destruction. Perhaps he's listening to Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, who's practically begging him to take a life of cushy exile in exchange for avoiding a showdown that could cost millions of American lives. I guess the moral is, having WMD means never having to say you're sorry.


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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to Lion's Cub
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 3:05 AM PDT #14 of 32

If Hussein had that kind of power over us, why wouldn't he be ruling the whole ME now?

His power is the same as Israel's power, or India's, or Pakistan's or France's power or Russia's power. In conventional military terms, he's nothing. His power is merely the power to deter his destruction. It is not a war-fighting power. This is not complicated. Deterrence, WMD, MAD -- these are all very familiar concepts. It shouldn't be that hard to grasp.


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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 2:59 AM PDT #12 of 32

You are very impressed by words. I'm not. People use words when they aren't ready to act. Bush isn't ready to act, and when he does act, the action will not be precipitous. We have already seen the strategy he will use: it has been prototyped with Arafat. Saddam will be gradually isolated. He will be out before the next presidential election, I hope, but I wouldn't look for him to be gone much sooner than that. Nobody has ever taken down a regime that has WMD, for obvious reasons. This will be a first in human history. It won't be a cake walk, and everybody who thinks otherwise will be sorely disappointed.

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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to Lion's Cub
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 2:30 AM PDT #10 of 32

If we had NO way to counter him, we wouldn't be moving like this.

It's not that there's no way. We're probably lucky -- I doubt if Saddam has transgenics. But it's going to take a while - most of Dubya's first term would be my guess. In the mean time, what people don't know won't hurt them. There's plenty of other cool stuff/posturing/time-wasting to fill up the empty space while we get our act together.


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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to Lion's Cub
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 1:47 AM PDT #7 of 32

Try saying out loud:
"My fellow Americans, on 9/11/01, Saddam Hussein wrought a terrible vengeance on the United States. Unfortunately, he has put us on notice that our greatest cities will be rendered uninhabitable and millions of Americans will die if we move to retaliate against him. It will be the work of years before we can counter this threat, so I ask you all to be patient, and simply accept the fact the United States is, for now, powerless to respond to the greatest surprise attack ever perpetrated in human history. Thank you, and good night."


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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl; Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 1:20 AM PDT #4 of 32

btt

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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 1:20 AM PDT #3 of 32

btt

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New smallpox plan raises as many questions as it answers
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz
On
News/Activism 09/26/2002 1:19 AM PDT #2 of 32

btt

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Click to show more posts ...

 
 
 
 

U.S. Sends Message to Iraq Military
      Posted by The Great Satan to Fred Mertz
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 9:36 PM PDT #36 of 39

I can't believe they mentioned anthrax and exile in the same article.

Baby steps for the hard-of-thinking.


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The Hidden Casualties of Gulf War I
      Posted by The Great Satan to LadyDoc
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 6:27 PM PDT #5 of 12

It wasn't bullets that took them down, but a casualty-producer the experts didn't count on called Gulf War Illness. So far, according to an April 2002 Department of Veterans Affairs report, an additional 7,758 Desert Storm vets have died, while 198,716 vets have filed claims for medical and compensation benefits. Of the claims filed, 156,031 have been granted as service-connected, with more vets being designated casualties as each day passes. The 198,716 figure represents a staggering 28 percent of the vets 696,579 who fought in the Gulf War conflict!

Pardon my skepticism. The death rate involved here is about 1 per 1000 per annum. That doesn't sound like an unusual death rate for men in their twenties and thirties to me. As for the 28% applying for benefits: well, either you believe 200,000 troops were unknowingly victims of CBW during Desert Storm, or you believe it is perfectly possible that none of them were, and the numbers need have no relation to any underlying "Gulf War Syndrome" at all.


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U.S. Sends Message to Iraq Military
      Posted by The Great Satan to Nogbad
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 5:59 PM PDT #34 of 39

There are no sleepers now in the USA waiting for secret codes to be sent.

BS. We already know he has moved anthrax in-country. Safest place for it. No weapons inspectors will ever find it, here in the USA.


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U.S. Sends Message to Iraq Military
      Posted by The Great Satan to Nogbad
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 5:27 PM PDT #32 of 39

All he has to do is hand over his germs to the terrorists (in some third country) and they will do the work for him, lots of fun for years to come.

Well, he could do that, too. But the control issues are the same. There has to be a hand-off of control and, ideally, that hand-off has to occur even if Saddam is killed. So there is really no important difference between the two scenarios, except that in one case we get whacked immediately, and in other case we get whacked later (maybe). And, from GWB's standpoint, the calculation is exactly the same. In fact, it's exactly the same even if, in reality, Saddam's bluffing -- even if he has no capability to manufacture powdered anthrax in anything but gramme quantities. We have to assume the worst, because the worst is perfectly plausible.


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Transcript: Iraq and the War On Terrorism [Transcript of Al Gore's Blathering]
      Posted by The Great Satan to William McKinley
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 3:35 PM PDT #10 of 59

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- From the Oval Office, President Clinton told the nation Wednesday evening why he ordered new military strikes against Iraq.

The president said Iraq's refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors presented a threat to the entire world.

"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said.

Operation Desert Fox, a strong, sustained series of attacks, will be carried out over several days by U.S. and British forces, Clinton said.

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton.

Clinton also stated that, while other countries also had weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors.

'Without delay, diplomacy or warning'

The Iraqi leader was given a final warning six weeks ago, Clinton said, when Baghdad promised to cooperate with U.N. inspectors at the last minute just as U.S. warplanes were headed its way.

"Along with Prime Minister (Tony) Blair of Great Britain, I made it equally clear that if Saddam failed to cooperate fully we would be prepared to act without delay, diplomacy or warning," Clinton said.

The president said the report handed in Tuesday by Richard Butler, head of the United Nations Special Commission in charge of finding and destroying Iraqi weapons, was stark and sobering.

Iraq failed to cooperate with the inspectors and placed new restrictions on them, Clinton said. He said Iraqi officials also destroyed records and moved everything, even the furniture, out of suspected sites before inspectors were allowed in.

"Instead of inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors," Clinton said.

"In halting our airstrikes in November, I gave Saddam a chance -- not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance, the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed," the president explained.

Strikes necessary to stunt weapons programs

Clinton said he made the decision to strike Wednesday with the unanimous agreement of his security advisors.

Timing was important, said the president, because without a strong inspection system in place, Iraq could rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear programs in a matter of months, not years.

"If Saddam can cripple the weapons inspections system and get away with it, he would conclude the international community, led by the United States, has simply lost its will," said Clinton. "He would surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction."

Clinton also called Hussein a threat to his people and to the security of the world.

"The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people," Clinton said.

Such a change in Baghdad would take time and effort, Clinton said, adding that his administration would work with Iraqi opposition forces.

Clinton also addressed the ongoing impeachment crisis in the White House.

"Saddam Hussein and the other enemies of peace may have thought that the serious debate currently before the House of Representatives would distract Americans or weaken our resolve to face him down," he said.

"But once more, the United States has proven that although we are never eager to use force, when we must act in America's vital interests, we will do so."


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C.I.A.'s Inquiry on Qaeda Aide Seen as Flawed
      Posted by The Great Satan to Asmodeus
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 3:29 PM PDT #6 of 6

More on "Islamic fundamentalist" king-pin Khalid Sheik Mohammed:

9/11 MASTERMIND FROLICKED IN DISCO AND SCUBA SPREE

More on Mohammed's associate, '93 WTC organizer Ramzi Yousef:

Who is Ramzi Yousef? And Why It Matters

A recent 60 Minutes interview with the sole indicted fugitive in the 1993 attempt to destroy the WTC, Abdul Rahman Yasin, conducted at the safe house in Baghdad where he now resides:

The Man Who Got Away


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Gore Warns Against Iraq Attack
      Posted by The Great Satan to joesnuffy
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 3:22 PM PDT #15 of 78

For all those Democrats who have been saying, "I voted for Gore, but now I'm glad he didn't win," here is all the vindication you need for your apostasy.

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U.S. Sends Message to Iraq Military
      Posted by The Great Satan to aristeides
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 3:14 PM PDT #23 of 39

Somebody in Iraq would then have to e-mail the codes to the terrorists. And doesn't that just raise the same problem of potential disloyalty in those communicators?

No, because they would be members of the Iraqi military, secret police, and/or political leadership.

The scheme could be elaborated for extra security easily enough, e.g. by distributing the "launch codes" among multiple, independent people. You can play with scenarios like that -- say maybe five out of ten people have to send their codes for the whole thing to work, or whatever. But that's probably being too anal about it. I just don't think it's that big a problem. You don't get to be a dictator without solving this kind of carrot/stick problem all the time -- otherwise your own security guards would do you in long before you came to power.

Again, control problems were no obstacle to the acquisition of doomsday deterrents by the US, Russia, China, Britain, France, India, Pakistan and Israel. It only takes about five minutes to figure out "good enough" solutions to the problems involved, once you set your mind to it.


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Gore: Bush's Iraq war push makes world more dangerous
      Posted by The Great Satan to Oldeconomybuyer
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 2:54 PM PDT #64 of 103

Here's the tape the RNC need to play in the coming election campaign:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- From the Oval Office, President Clinton told the nation Wednesday evening why he ordered new military strikes against Iraq.

The president said Iraq's refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors presented a threat to the entire world.

"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said.

Operation Desert Fox, a strong, sustained series of attacks, will be carried out over several days by U.S. and British forces, Clinton said.

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton.

Clinton also stated that, while other countries also had weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors.

'Without delay, diplomacy or warning'

The Iraqi leader was given a final warning six weeks ago, Clinton said, when Baghdad promised to cooperate with U.N. inspectors at the last minute just as U.S. warplanes were headed its way.

"Along with Prime Minister (Tony) Blair of Great Britain, I made it equally clear that if Saddam failed to cooperate fully we would be prepared to act without delay, diplomacy or warning," Clinton said.

The president said the report handed in Tuesday by Richard Butler, head of the United Nations Special Commission in charge of finding and destroying Iraqi weapons, was stark and sobering.

Iraq failed to cooperate with the inspectors and placed new restrictions on them, Clinton said. He said Iraqi officials also destroyed records and moved everything, even the furniture, out of suspected sites before inspectors were allowed in.

"Instead of inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors," Clinton said.

"In halting our airstrikes in November, I gave Saddam a chance -- not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance, the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed," the president explained.

Strikes necessary to stunt weapons programs

Clinton said he made the decision to strike Wednesday with the unanimous agreement of his security advisors.

Timing was important, said the president, because without a strong inspection system in place, Iraq could rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear programs in a matter of months, not years.

"If Saddam can cripple the weapons inspections system and get away with it, he would conclude the international community, led by the United States, has simply lost its will," said Clinton. "He would surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction."

Clinton also called Hussein a threat to his people and to the security of the world.

"The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people," Clinton said.

Such a change in Baghdad would take time and effort, Clinton said, adding that his administration would work with Iraqi opposition forces.

Clinton also addressed the ongoing impeachment crisis in the White House.

"Saddam Hussein and the other enemies of peace may have thought that the serious debate currently before the House of Representatives would distract Americans or weaken our resolve to face him down," he said.

"But once more, the United States has proven that although we are never eager to use force, when we must act in America's vital interests, we will do so."



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U.S. Sends Message to Iraq Military
      Posted by The Great Satan to aristeides
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 2:46 PM PDT #19 of 39

If the weapons are already in the U.S., they are in the hands either of agents of Saddam or of terrorist surrogates. But I think we can exclude the surrogates, as they would already have used them. That leaves agents of Saddam. But what reason would they have to follow orders and actually use the weapons when the time comes?

Not a problem. A simple dual-key solution will suffice. Pre-place the anthrax in undisclosed locations and e-mail the martyrdom boys the locations, locker combinations, etc. when the time comes. These martyrdom boys are attack dogs straining at the leash. When the time comes, they won't need persuading. From Saddam's point of view, this al-Qaeda partnership thing is absolutely golden.

Building a doomsday deterrent using low-tech pieces like al-Qaeda wackos and aerosolized anthrax isn't that different from building one based on ICBMs and thermonuclear bombs. The control problems are pretty similar, and as readily solved.


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Why Iraq? Why Now?
      Posted by The Great Satan to Paul Ross
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 1:18 PM PDT #6 of 20

Much of the "letter" information is considered criminal investigation evidence, and has not been released by the FBI to the public or to public health investigators.

To understand, imagine yourself as George W. Bush, and say out loud:

"My fellow Americans, I can tell you tonight that we now know that Saddam Hussein wrought a terrible vengeance on the United States for his Gulf War defeat last September 11. Saddam's terrorist proxies rearranged America's skyline, murdered 3,000 of our citizens in front of the watching eyes of the world, and caused $100 billion of economic damage to New York City alone. As you can imagine, we earnestly wish to respond to this grevious injury. Unfortunately, Saddam has backed up his surprise attack with a terrible blackmail: if we attempt to kill him or remove him from power, more sleeper agents will attack America, armed this time not with box cutters but with weaponized anthrax. In this eventuality, the dead could number in the millions, and our greatest cities would be turned into unusable waste land. Thus, for the time being, I have decided to we cannot afford to retaliate. I hope you will all understand the difficulty of the situation, and bear with me during this difficult period. God bless America. Thank you and good night.


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U.S. Sends Message to Iraq Military
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl; Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 12:55 PM PDT #4 of 39

ping

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U.S. Sends Message to Iraq Military
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 12:55 PM PDT #3 of 39

btt

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U.S. Sends Message to Iraq Military
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 12:54 PM PDT #2 of 39

getting more explicit now

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LIVE THREAD: GORE TO SPEAK SHORTLY ON IRAQ - 3:15 approx
      Posted by The Great Satan to epluribus_2
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 12:51 PM PDT #188 of 388

Most Wanted Terrorist - Abdul Rahman Yasin

60 Minutes: The Man Who Got Away


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LIVE THREAD: GORE TO SPEAK SHORTLY ON IRAQ - 3:15 approx
      Posted by The Great Satan to All
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 12:46 PM PDT #163 of 388

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- From the Oval Office, President Clinton told the nation Wednesday evening why he ordered new military strikes against Iraq.

The president said Iraq's refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors presented a threat to the entire world.

"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said.

Operation Desert Fox, a strong, sustained series of attacks, will be carried out over several days by U.S. and British forces, Clinton said.

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton.

Clinton also stated that, while other countries also had weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors.

'Without delay, diplomacy or warning'

The Iraqi leader was given a final warning six weeks ago, Clinton said, when Baghdad promised to cooperate with U.N. inspectors at the last minute just as U.S. warplanes were headed its way.

"Along with Prime Minister (Tony) Blair of Great Britain, I made it equally clear that if Saddam failed to cooperate fully we would be prepared to act without delay, diplomacy or warning," Clinton said.

The president said the report handed in Tuesday by Richard Butler, head of the United Nations Special Commission in charge of finding and destroying Iraqi weapons, was stark and sobering.

Iraq failed to cooperate with the inspectors and placed new restrictions on them, Clinton said. He said Iraqi officials also destroyed records and moved everything, even the furniture, out of suspected sites before inspectors were allowed in.

"Instead of inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors," Clinton said.

"In halting our airstrikes in November, I gave Saddam a chance -- not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance, the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed," the president explained.

Strikes necessary to stunt weapons programs

Clinton said he made the decision to strike Wednesday with the unanimous agreement of his security advisors.

Timing was important, said the president, because without a strong inspection system in place, Iraq could rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear programs in a matter of months, not years.

"If Saddam can cripple the weapons inspections system and get away with it, he would conclude the international community, led by the United States, has simply lost its will," said Clinton. "He would surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction."

Clinton also called Hussein a threat to his people and to the security of the world.

"The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people," Clinton said.

Such a change in Baghdad would take time and effort, Clinton said, adding that his administration would work with Iraqi opposition forces.

Clinton also addressed the ongoing impeachment crisis in the White House.

"Saddam Hussein and the other enemies of peace may have thought that the serious debate currently before the House of Representatives would distract Americans or weaken our resolve to face him down," he said.

"But once more, the United States has proven that although we are never eager to use force, when we must act in America's vital interests, we will do so."



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LIVE THREAD: GORE TO SPEAK SHORTLY ON IRAQ - 3:15 approx
      Posted by The Great Satan to twyn1
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 12:42 PM PDT #143 of 388

Am I hearing a little more "Southern Drawl" every once in awhile--is that a new "style" ???

I noticed that the other day, when he was down in Florida chatting up Reno. The guy has decided to reinvent himself agin, although I'm not sure exactly as what. I think he's basically self-destructing before our eyes. It's amazing to behold.


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LIVE THREAD: GORE TO SPEAK SHORTLY ON IRAQ - 3:15 approx
      Posted by The Great Satan to carton253
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 12:40 PM PDT #133 of 388

Al... if you are paying attention, you would have noticed that Al-Qaida has been running to Iraq. Why? Because they have safe haven there.

The sole remaining indicted fugitive from the 1993 conspiracy to topple the WTC, Abdul Rahman Yasin, is living in a safe house in Baghdad. Coinky-dence? I don't think so.


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LIVE THREAD: GORE TO SPEAK SHORTLY ON IRAQ - 3:15 approx
      Posted by The Great Satan to Wait4Truth
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 12:33 PM PDT #92 of 388

Saddam Hussein is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

Sincerely,

Al Gore


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IDF officers to brief CIA on terror cell that trained in Iraq
      Posted by The Great Satan to truthandlife
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 11:48 AM PDT #3 of 4

In the past, Iraq has been known to be involved in promoting Palestinian terror, in addition to funneling funds and equipment to Palestinian terror organizations.

Saddam openly promotes suicide bombings by offering a $25,000 reward to the families of suicide bombers. In other words, he wages war on Israel using suicide terrorists as proxies. Hmm, I wonder who else he might be waging war on using suicide terrorists as proxies.


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Secretary Rumsfeld And Polish Minister Siwiec Press Conference
      Posted by The Great Satan to Hipixs
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 11:43 AM PDT #3 of 7

Germany is the new Sick Man of Europe. Who'da thunk it?

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Invade and Unleash
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 11:39 AM PDT #13 of 14

Note that the infrastructure being put in place here is also that required to respond to a mass anthrax dispersal. Thus, we can move full-speed ahead on those preparations without ever mentioning that tiresome "A" word. Once again, a scary-but-hypothetical threat serves as a proxy for a scary-and-concrete threat, legitimating and motivating preventive action without handing the enemy a psychological victory.

Also note that the timescale involved in these preparations tells you that the end game with Saddam is still many months away. We will boil this frog slowly (Arafat style) while we build up our defenses. If there is military action in the next six months it will not involve a direct confrontation with Saddam, IMO. My guess is it would involve largely symbolic strikes on military facilities, plus the gradual dismemberment of the country, starting from the no-fly zones, and the setting up of alternative governments in the conquered territory, reprising the Afghan campaign. The recent stories about plans for a sudden decapitation strike are yet more disinfo. Saddam needs to be left with an out for now.


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Invade and Unleash
      Posted by The Great Satan to aristeides
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 4:50 AM PDT #8 of 14

Bush controls the gas and the brake here. If things move too fast, he just calls up John Ashcroft and asks him to stage another photo-op search of Steve Hatfill's house. Or, he has Mueller leak that the FBI think that Iraqi agent in Prague might have met with a circus clown wearing a Mohammed Atta mask rather than the real thing. If things need nudging along, he has Cheney ambush Tim Russert by blurting out, "Tim, who sent the anthrax?" a propos of nothing at all in the middle of an MTP interview. And so it goes...

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A Nation of Informers
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 1:37 AM PDT #52 of 100

Thumbs up to this woman. I think, as a side-bonus, anything that makes mohammedans feel more uncomfortable and unwelcome in America is ipso facto a good thing, and functional in the larger context of our war with Islam. We really don't these savages and their creepy, death-cult religion in our country. This is a civilized country, not a Third World sewer.

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Invade and Unleash
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl; Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 1:17 AM PDT #4 of 14

Watching mental midgets struggling to decipher the bleeding obvious is my new hobby.

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Invade and Unleash
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 1:15 AM PDT #3 of 14

Getting warmer.

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Invade and Unleash
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 1:14 AM PDT #2 of 14

ping

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Invade and Unleash
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 09/23/2002 1:13 AM PDT with 13 comments


Washington Post ^ | September 22, 2002 | William C. Potter
As the United States moves closer to war with Iraq, the Bush administration has sharpened its rationale for an attack: All remnants of Saddam Hussein's weapons-of-mass-destruction program must be destroyed. The return of U.N. inspectors, it is argued plausibly, might serve a number of useful purposes but cannot guarantee that disarmament outcome. The question no one in the administration wants to ask -- or answer -- is whether an invasion would guarantee the elimination of Iraq's biological weapons arsenal. An even more delicate question that has not been addressed publicly is whether an invasion might actually increase the likelihood of...
     
 
Democrats line up as Bush moves forward
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/23/2002 12:37 AM PDT #2 of 6

Then Mr. Bush did several things in rapid-fire succession, almost as if the entire sequence of events were choreographed from the beginning.

Which, of course, it was.


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War Plans Target Hussein Power Base
      Posted by The Great Satan to Pokey78
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 8:33 PM PDT #6 of 13

Disinfo galore here.

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Israel Tells the U.S. It Will Retaliate if Attacked by Iraq
      Posted by The Great Satan to bonesmccoy
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 7:17 PM PDT #120 of 285

Do you think Hussein can be neutralized prior to launching Chem/bio weapons?

I don't think there's any way to be certain that Saddam or one of his henchman would not loose off CBW in the end game. I do not expect him to use them, either in battle or in the form of terror strikes, until or unless it's game over. I do not think they will be of much use on the battlefield anyway, so I think we will see them used against civilians, if at all. There is some possibility that he might stage some kind of large-scale "demonstration" of his CBW, using al-Qaeda proxies, prior to the end game, but I think that is somewhat improbable.

I think he's staked everything on the notion that the United States would be deterred from removing him by the threat of biological attacks on the civilian populations of the US and its allies ("WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US"). He's hoping that Bush will be satisfied with a face-saving wrist-slapping involving a showdown over the weapons inspectors, and simply let the issue of Saddam's authorship of 9/11 drop. Then Saddam could capitulate to the inspections, which mean nothing, and live to fight another day, when the world is looking the other way. Basically, this would be a replay of his successful Gulf War strategy, but on an intercontinental scale.

I think our army forces, if sent into an Iraqi city, would be susceptible to chemical attack.

I doubt chemical weapons will be of much use to Saddam locally. If that's his best shot, he would just be commiting suicide by using them. But it isn't his best shot.

I doubt that chemical weapons could hit US cities.

Concur. Nerve agents like VX are not so easy to deploy effectively. It's not like anthrax, where you can just toss a bag of the stuff on subway tracks and kill millions of people.

However, biological weapons can hit US cities ad nauseum and we wouldn't know it for weeks. Because of this view, I have alerted our physicians in our practice to work on bioterror and chemical weapons clinical pathways. We need to make sure we can ID the threats quickly in the civilian population.

Concur. This is very important work. Although things have been happening behind the scenes, with respect to stockpiling smallpox and anthrax vaccines and informing doctors, I really wish plain old-fashioned civil defense were being given a higher profile. Guess they don't want to scare us, hurt the economy, etc.

Losing US lives because Sharon screws up our campaign plans is not good.

I've no doubt Sharon has been working hand-in-glove with the US administration since 9-11. The strategy of "isolating" Yasser Arafat -- an important chess piece in the end game with Saddam -- was brainstormed in the aftermath of the WTC attacks, I've little doubt, and can be viewed as a prototype for the "isolation" of Saddam Hussein. As for Israel's commitment to go nuclear on Saddam's ass if he makes a move against them, that too has been dialed into the isolation plan, along with the similar threat recently issued by Great Britain. Every pressure that can be brought to bear on Saddam will be brought to bear on Saddam. It will take time, but it seems to be going rather smoothly, from where I'm standing.


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Israel Tells the U.S. It Will Retaliate if Attacked by Iraq
      Posted by The Great Satan to bonesmccoy
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 6:16 PM PDT #101 of 285

If Hussein is convinced he's going down anyway, he would rather martyr himself in a jihad against Jews.

I don't think Hussein's going to martyr himself to anything.

I really have no special concerns about our troops in the region, beyond the ordinary concern one would always have for one's own side's soldiers. I don't think they are particularly threatened by Saddam's CBW arsenal, which will more likely be targeted at soft, civilian targets in Israel, Europe and the United States. I expect that, if there is fighting (which remains to be seen), most of it will be done from 20,000 feet, or by Kurdish and other local proxies, much as in Afghanistan.

And, in the final analysis, soldiers are for fighting, which may involve dying -- that's what they are there for, and what they sign up for. The United States gets all worked up over the loss of 50,000 men over ten years in Vietnam. In World War I, England lost over 400,000 men in one battle, so let's keep things in perspective, shall we?


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Israel Tells the U.S. It Will Retaliate if Attacked by Iraq
      Posted by The Great Satan to ex-Texan
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 4:22 PM PDT #29 of 285

This complicates Saddam's thinking quite a bit. Would the United States really nuke Baghdad in the event of an anthrax attack on US cities? -- especially, say, if the attack caused only "intermediate-scale" casualties, say in the tens of thousands. Saddam might gamble that we are too soft and PC to strike back. But now he has to think about Sharon, too. Is he going to strike the US, but not Israel? I seriously doubt it: his whole personality cult is that he is the leader who will bring the Arabs victory over the Jews. But he knows we can absorb a few tens or hundreds of thousands dead: Israel can't. If he tries anything, Baghdad is a radioactive hole in the ground.

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Israel Inoculates Emergency Workers - Gas Masks Issued to Tourist
      Posted by The Great Satan to bonesmccoy
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 4:15 PM PDT #14 of 14

I believe we do have large stockpiles of watered-down smallpox vaccine already, but the new, good-quality stuff looks set to be on-line (all 300 million doses) by the end of the year. Cheney referred to this in his last Russert interview. See this Washington Post story from Thursday: Maker of Smallpox Vaccine Cites Progress.

For info on redirection of military anthrax vaccine to civil defense: Pentagon Shifts Anthrax Vaccine to Civilian Uses .

For info on the government's plans to purchase 25 million doses of anthrax vaccine: RFP ANNOUNCEMENT: PRODUCTION AND TESTING OF VACCINES AGAINST ANTHRAX.


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Calling a madman's number
      Posted by The Great Satan to 88keys
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 3:47 PM PDT #6 of 13

Iraq calls for jihad to capture Jerusalem
Baghdad

Iraq urged the Arab world to follow the example of Muslim hero Salah Al Din (Saladin) and recapture Jerusalem, warning that Palestine could not be freed through "bargaining and concessions."

"The Arabs have to learn the lesson of Saladin's Liberation of Palestine and Jerusalem," said the ruling party's newspaper, Ath-Thawra, in reaction to the killing of 36 Palestinians in clashes with Israeli forces.

"Palestine will not be won back through bargaining and concessions made from a position of weakness but through mobilization of all resources and collective Arab support for the Palestinians."

Pouring scorn on the US-sponsored peace process, Ath-Thawra warned that Washington "cannot be a friend or honest broker in any Arab cause, especially not the Palestinian one."

Saladin's historic victory over the Crusaders in 1187, which is marked by discussions at Iraqi universities each 2 October, led to the capture of the holy city for the Muslims.

A Kurdish warrior who commanded Egyptian and Syrian troops in the battle for Jerusalem, Saladin was from Tikrit in northern Iraq where Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was also born.

The Iraqi government, in its first reaction to several days of bloodshed in the Palestinian territories, called on Sunday for "a jihad (holy war) to liberate Palestine".

AFP


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Saddam should be given the chance to avoid a war that seems inevitable!
      Posted by The Great Satan to vannrox
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 3:33 PM PDT #2 of 16

Yawn. "They have not led. We shall."

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Israel threatens to blow up what's left of Arafat's compound
      Posted by The Great Satan to illstillbe
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 1:54 PM PDT #102 of 267

Partner in Peace, RIP.

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Israel Gives Arafat 5 minutes to leave compound!!
      Posted by The Great Satan to freeasinbeer
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 1:53 PM PDT #14 of 107

The bombing starts in five minutes! Whooo-hooo!

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Israel Plants its Flag in Arafat Compound in Ramallah
      Posted by The Great Satan to Thinkin' Gal
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 1:51 PM PDT #37 of 200

No more Mr. Nice Guy. God, I love it!

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CNN Saturday Interview With Donald Rumsfeld
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 1:36 PM PDT #11 of 13

What they're hoping for is to isolate Hussein sufficiently that he will take that out. His life is a bargaining chip we need -- much as the Israelis need Arafat's life, although the stakes are much higher in our case.

The interaction between this policy goal -- Saddam removed, but not killed -- and the question of public finger-pointing at Saddam for 9-11 is somewhat complicated. To say, "Saddam did 9-11, no question" and then offer him exile would sound pretty weak, although the people could be conditioned to accept it by appropriate manipulation (they don't want to die either).

There may be a hope that they can squeeze Saddam out without having to go all the way on finger-pointing. As long as things are left ambiguous, Saddam can be given an out without loss of face to the US -- in fact we would look tough in that circumstance. Then the Atta-Prague meeting and the anthrax can simply be consigned to the category of "unsolved mysteries," which will please everybody.

However, it is still quite likely, IMO, that Saddam will resist long enough that a full disclosure is required. For example, if they reach a standoff where we have to put a nuclear bomber over Baghdad to show earnest of intent, that's going to require getting pretty explicit about Saddam's threat.

There is a continuum here between half-accusations and atmospherics and full disclosure, and the manipulation of our position on that continuum is of vital interest to the national command authority.

To understand the anthrax story, or the Prague story, you have to grasp the problem the administration faces, and the tools at its disposal to address them. If you don't -- if you just take everything at face value -- you'll never understand what's really going on.


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CNN Saturday Interview With Donald Rumsfeld
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 12:38 PM PDT #9 of 13

If Saddam Hussein decided to take a handful of his family and senior leaders and go away and no longer would Iraq have those weapons and no longer would they threaten their neighbor, I think that would be a -- I personally think that would be a good thing for the world.

Interesting.


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Israel Inoculates Emergency Workers - Gas Masks Issued to Tourist
      Posted by The Great Satan to Former Fetus
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 12:14 PM PDT #12 of 14

Shouldn't we learn from the people who deal on an almost daily basis with terrorists?

The United States will have enough smallpox vaccine on hand to innoculate the entire population by December. The government put in an order for 300 million doses after last year's anthrax threats. On the anthrax front, the government has redirected the Army's stockpile, created to protect troops during a "Gulf War II," to a civilian reserve. A new "morning after" anthrax vaccine is also on order, with a requisition for 25 million doses, but delivery is still a long way away for that.


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The Fog of Peace
      Posted by The Great Satan to Pokey78
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 11:35 AM PDT #4 of 91

Superb article.

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Iraq says it will not abide by any unfavorable Security Council resolutions
      Posted by The Great Satan to Bernard Marx
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 11:17 AM PDT #22 of 24

I am greatly enjoying watching our "dumb, cowboy" President indelibly underscoring what his Euro critics and Democrap critics have not previously admitted: the UN 'emperor' has no clothes.

His strategery with the UN has been the same as with Arafat: give 'em enough rope to hang themselves. And it's working beautifully in both cases.


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ARAFAT'S RUBBLE TROUBLE
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/21/2002 2:24 AM PDT #2 of 3

Hey, Arafag! You can run, but you can't hide.

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Official clarifies 'Adolf' remark
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 11:43 PM PDT #3 of 37

Whatever you do, don't mention the war!


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Official clarifies 'Adolf' remark
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 11:38 PM PDT #2 of 37

Who is this "Adolf Nazi" person? I've never heard of him.

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Florida Terror-Alert Students Refuse Lie Tests
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 11:21 PM PDT #90 of 94

The refusal came after their accuser, Georgia resident Eunice Stone, said she'd be willing to submit to a lie test to prove her story, challenging them to do the same.

Hmmm, I believe this woman's telling the truth, and the three muslim types are liars.


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New Bush Strategy: America As Worlds Cop
      Posted by The Great Satan to adam stevens
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 10:45 PM PDT #6 of 6

"Your choice is simple."


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Why don't they fear us?
      Posted by The Great Satan to Utah Girl
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 10:31 PM PDT #9 of 9

Well, WMD are an ace in the hole, aren't they? They worked for Saddam in 1991, and again in 2001. There's a reason states pursue WMD. It's called invulnerability.

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Click to show more posts ... Top of Page

 
 
 
 

Israeli forces begin bulldozing near Arafat's office Sixth Tel Aviv bomb victim dies
      Posted by The Great Satan to demlosers
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 5:52 PM PDT #32 of 32

"The situation is very grave and serious," said Nabil abu Rudeineh, an Arafat aide inside Arafat's office.

Then why am I laughing?


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White House Releases National Security Strategy
      Posted by The Great Satan to Oldeconomybuyer
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 5:42 PM PDT #49 of 63

My first-pass take is that the Bush administration is in full "transformation" mode - similar to what Rumsfeld has been doing at the Pentagon. Essentially, aligning our intelligence, military, and foreign relations strategy with our national security interests - all based on post-Cold war conventional and non-conventional threats.

Good call. Thank God we have adults back in the White House.


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Schroeder sends conciliatory letter to Bush... Developing...
      Posted by The Great Satan to RobFromGa
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 5:39 PM PDT #63 of 86

Schroeder needs to be "isolated."

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Powell expresses 'outrage' to German FM over reported Bush-Hitler comments
      Posted by The Great Satan to HAL9000
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 5:35 PM PDT #7 of 10

It's time we started "isolating" Schroeder.

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The Sunshine Warrior (Paul Wolfowitz)
      Posted by The Great Satan to Lady In Blue; texasbluebell; blackie; Imal
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 5:09 PM PDT #2 of 10

This article features the usual NY Times slant (the Times is almost fanatically pro-Saddam), but this tidbit will give you an idea of the significance of Mylroie's work:
Friends of Wolfowitz's say his initial reaction was that Iraq was probably a party to the attacks. He had already studied the work of Laurie Mylroie, an investigator who has labored to connect Iraq to earlier terrorist attacks, including the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, and now an ardent student of clues connecting Saddam to Sept. 11. The Clinton administration treated Mylroie as, in her words, ''a nut case,'' but Wolfowitz -- then spending the Clinton years as dean of the prestigious School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins -- listened to her 90-minute briefing on the evidence trail and wrote a sympathetic blurb for her book blaming Iraq for the first trade-center attack. After Sept. 11, he encouraged his friend R. James Woolsey, the former C.I.A. director, to visit England as a consultant to a Justice Department mission and sniff out evidence of Iraqi connections. Woolsey contends that evidence connecting Iraq with terrorist assaults on America, while circumstantial, is ''about as clear as these things get.'' Few others go that far, Wolfowitz included. He can describe the evidence in detail, the clandestine meetings between Iraqi intelligence and figures who may have been Al Qaeda operatives, and says he finds it intriguing but not conclusive.
Remember the name R. James Woolsey. We will be hearing a lot more from him, when we move on to the next act of this "three act play."


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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Mitchell; Nogbad
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 4:59 PM PDT #41 of 43

I agree with your reasoning, with the proviso that there is a lot of noise in the data here. Of course, the S/N ratio would be improved if the authorities would let us in on the information they have developed about that "piece of stationery" Stevens held up to his face, or what the woman who opened the supposed second letter actually saw, and whether it was at all reminiscent of the other anthrax letters. But for some reason, they aren't doing that. I think that is revealing, in and of itself.

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PALESTINIANS LAUD SADDAM, BASH BUSH AS AMERICAN-IRAQI SHOWDOWN LOOMS
      Posted by The Great Satan to SJackson
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 11:58 AM PDT #5 of 5

Now more than ever: Kick Their Ass, and Take Their Gas!

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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to muawiyah
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 10:58 AM PDT #37 of 43

Your ordinary First-Class Mail, if it gets all the breaks possible, can be delivered overnight from just about anywhere in the country to anywhere else.

Okay, so that puts it within the bounds of possibilty that the letter opened by Bob Stevens on the 19th was part of the Sept 18th mailing from NJ, which also targeted ABC, NBC, CBS and the NY Post. Fair enough.

Several things continue to point away from that conclusion, and to suggest that the letter that killed Stevens was a completely different kettle of fish:

  • The two anthrax cases at AMI were both inhalational, as were the bulk of the cases from the October mailing. All seven cases known to be associated with the 9/18 mailing were cutaneous.

  • The Sun, a fantasy tabloid aimed at lower-class seniors, is completely the odd-man out among the media targets in terms of location and content.

  • Despite contamination at six of seven Palm Beach post offices and a systematic effort to back-trace the path of the incoming letters through the mail system, no evidence emerged that the letters came from NJ, or anywhere else but Palm Beach county, home of AMI and most of the 9/11 hijackers.

  • There is no obvious reason why a letter identical to or similar to the 9/18 letters should have been directed to photo editor Bob Stevens' desk.

  • It is hard to believe that Stevens, who received little office mail, could have opened such a letter and held it up to his face, just a week after the events of 9/11, and yet never mentioned anything about its contents to his coworkers or family, even after he fell desperately ill.

  • In fact, published reports indicate that the contents of that letter are actually known to Stevens' coworkers -- that it was in fact the "J-Lo letter" discussed in the media at the time, which bears no resemblance to the NJ letters.

First reports (coming from Newsweek) were that the J-Lo letter was received about 9/4, although some later reports use the 9/19 date or say "after 9/17." Some reports indicate that the letter was initially discarded or set aside and that Stevens's exposure came some time after it arrived. The National Enquirer's coverage of the events at AMI affirms that the J-Lo letter was the likely vector for the anthrax that killed Stevens. It has been reported that the FBI asked AMI employees not to talk more about this letter, even while they derogated it's possible connection to Stevens death.

Note that the FBI also kept a lid on the post hoc diagnosis of cutaneous anthrax in hijacker Ahmed Alhaznawi and, when it was exposed by the New York Times many months later, they were unable to give any other explanation for the apparent oversight except that they hadn't turned up any anthrax spores in the hijackers' apartments.

Of course, if they know that the 9/19 letter was the J-Lo letter, and they know it arrived before 9/11, that would, all by itself, be the end of any effort to stall us on the origin of the letters.

The CDC is here reporting that two probable anthrax letters were received and opened by AMI employees and yet, officially, we haven't heard a peep about the contents of either of them, one year later.

Why is that, do you suppose?


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STRATEGIC PLAN: BULLDOZE ARAFAT INTO OBLIVION
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 3:52 AM PDT #7 of 8

And, on a lighter note: HAMAS BIG SLAIN IN WHEELCHAIR

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STRATEGIC PLAN: BULLDOZE ARAFAT INTO OBLIVION
      Posted by The Great Satan to webboss
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 3:42 AM PDT #6 of 8

Man, the caption on that pic is a hoot. What an incredibly creepy bunch of people the pallies are.

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Bush Sends Iraq Text to Congress
      Posted by The Great Satan to kcvl
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 3:29 AM PDT #33 of 34

Clinton: Iraq has abused its last chance

December 16, 1998

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- From the Oval Office, President Clinton told the nation Wednesday evening why he ordered new military strikes against Iraq.

The president said Iraq's refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors presented a threat to the entire world.

"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said.

Operation Desert Fox, a strong, sustained series of attacks, will be carried out over several days by U.S. and British forces, Clinton said.

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton.

Clinton also stated that, while other countries also had weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors.

'Without delay, diplomacy or warning'

The Iraqi leader was given a final warning six weeks ago, Clinton said, when Baghdad promised to cooperate with U.N. inspectors at the last minute just as U.S. warplanes were headed its way.

"Along with Prime Minister (Tony) Blair of Great Britain, I made it equally clear that if Saddam failed to cooperate fully we would be prepared to act without delay, diplomacy or warning," Clinton said.

The president said the report handed in Tuesday by Richard Butler, head of the United Nations Special Commission in charge of finding and destroying Iraqi weapons, was stark and sobering.

Iraq failed to cooperate with the inspectors and placed new restrictions on them, Clinton said. He said Iraqi officials also destroyed records and moved everything, even the furniture, out of suspected sites before inspectors were allowed in.

"Instead of inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors," Clinton said.

"In halting our airstrikes in November, I gave Saddam a chance -- not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance, the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed," the president explained.

Strikes necessary to stunt weapons programs

Clinton said he made the decision to strike Wednesday with the unanimous agreement of his security advisors.

Timing was important, said the president, because without a strong inspection system in place, Iraq could rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear programs in a matter of months, not years.

"If Saddam can cripple the weapons inspections system and get away with it, he would conclude the international community, led by the United States, has simply lost its will," said Clinton. "He would surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction."

Clinton also called Hussein a threat to his people and to the security of the world.

"The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people," Clinton said.

Such a change in Baghdad would take time and effort, Clinton said, adding that his administration would work with Iraqi opposition forces.

Clinton also addressed the ongoing impeachment crisis in the White House.

"Saddam Hussein and the other enemies of peace may have thought that the serious debate currently before the House of Representatives would distract Americans or weaken our resolve to face him down," he said.

"But once more, the United States has proven that although we are never eager to use force, when we must act in America's vital interests, we will do so."


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U.S. had warnings of plot to attack WTC
      Posted by The Great Satan to weikel
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 3:11 AM PDT #7 of 8

Please, troops are not the problem. Weren't you watching TV on 9/11/01? Saddam will use his biologicals on soft targets, not troops -- targets like New York, DC, London, etc. He's not stupid.

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U.S. had warnings of plot to attack WTC
      Posted by The Great Satan to weikel
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 2:10 AM PDT #4 of 8

Just remember -- nobody has ever taken out a WMD-armed regime before. This promises to be a very delicate operation.

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W. BOXED THE U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 1:27 AM PDT #2 of 32

It took about six months for Bush to render Arafat irrelevant. It looks like the timescale will be about the same for the UN. What left-wing institution should we turn him on next?

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STRATEGIC PLAN: BULLDOZE ARAFAT INTO OBLIVION
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 1:17 AM PDT #2 of 8

"The idea is to leave him with maybe two rooms and a toilet - if he's lucky," one official told The Post.

And maybe cut off his TP ration one month for every Israeli kiled in a suicide bombing henceforth?


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Bush to Outline Doctrine of Striking Foes First
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 12:24 AM PDT #18 of 46

This is rockin'. Anyone care to guess what Al Gore would be doing now?

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U.S. had warnings of plot to attack WTC
      Posted by The Great Satan to Black Powder
On
News/Activism 09/20/2002 12:13 AM PDT #2 of 8

And in 1993, terrorists tried to topple both towers of the WTC, hoping to kill up to 200,000 people. And the one indicted conspirator in the attack still unapprehended, Abdul Rahman Yasin, is currently living in Baghdad as a guest of Saddam Hussein.

THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMB: Who is Ramzi Yousef? And Why It Matters


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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to Lion's Cub
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 11:43 PM PDT #32 of 43

Well, it couldn't have been sent from NJ at the same time as the other media letters and yet ended up on Stevens' desk the next day. However, the 9/19 date, by itself, doesn't preclude that the letter was sent from NJ -- it could have been sent before the other media letters. The second letter could potentially have been part of the 9/18 mailing, although it's odd that the recipient, who actually opened the letter, has not publicly ID-ed it as such. You'd think the published letters would ring a bell, since they were all photocopies.

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Bush to Outline Doctrine of Striking Foes First
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 11:19 PM PDT #12 of 46

The document makes no reference to the Kyoto accord

Sacre bleu!


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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to Lion's Cub
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 11:15 PM PDT #28 of 43

The letters had to have been mailed locally.

Well, I think that's overstating it. But it does look that way.


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The War Against America[Saddam Hussein And The World Trade Center Attacks]
      Posted by The Great Satan to Lady In Blue
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 10:31 PM PDT #10 of 18

You cannot understand the thinking of the Bush administration, or what really happened on 9/11/01, without reading this book. It's that simple.

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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 8:35 PM PDT #19 of 43

It has been reported that one of the Delray Beach hiackers, Ahmed Alghamdi , had a subscription to Mira!, an AMI tabloid devoted to Latin celebrities...

Agents check newspaper for terror links

By Andrew Gumbel
16 October 2001

Investigators looking at possible links between the anthrax scare and the 11 September hijackings are checking at a newspaper they believe may have been used for messages between guerilla cells based in Florida and Western Europe.

Hamza Alghamdi and Marwan Al-Shehhi, rented flats this summer in Delray Beach, near to the Boca Raton headquarters of the Spanish-language publishing company American Media Inc. It was there the first anthrax outbreak was reported.

In what investigators see as a coincidence, the estate agent who organised the rental was the wife of the editor of The Sun, the AMI paper that employed the only person to have died of anthrax so far, Bob Stevens, a photo editor. As well as Alghamdi and Al-Shehhi, seven other hijackers are believed to have visited the apartments, at the Delray Racquet Club. Two took out subscriptions to AMI publications. In particular, Ahmed Alghamdi subscribed online to the Spanish-language tabloid Mira!, using a bogus address in Saudi Arabia.

The FBI said yesterday it was checking Mira!'s archives for messages in its personal columns. One theory is that the Florida hijackers used the paper to communicate with suspected members of the al-Qai'da network based in Spain.

The Spanish Interior Minister was in Washington yesterday to discuss the investigation into al-Qa'ida with FBI officials. Spain recently arrested six Algerians suspected of involvement in a plot to attack US targets in Europe.

If hijackers in Florida were involved in the anthrax attacks, they almost certainly had accomplices who are still at large. Confirmed anthrax samples sent to NBC in New York and the Washington offices of Tom Daschle, the Senate majority leader, appear to have been posted after 11 September from New Jersey.



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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to motexva
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 7:33 PM PDT #17 of 43

The thing that puzzles me, is if the J-Lo letter contained anthrax, does this mean that the other letters, with their obvious connection to 9-11 and islamic terrorism, were just ruses designed to tie up investigators?

I think those were intended to remind us that the sleepers didn't all immolate themselves on 9-11. They're still here, and they still "have this anthrax."


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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 7:29 PM PDT #15 of 43

And, while we're at it, what is the approximate liklihood that a piece mailed in Princeton, NJ would contaminate six different locations in Palm Beach County, FL?

Well, they're saying two letters were involved, but your point is well taken. Sounds more like the letter(s) were mailed locally. One post office which was contaminated was in Lantana. That's where the small airfield used by Mohammed Atta and Michael Irish, the Sun's editor and husband of the 9-11 hijackers' realtor, happens to be located. I wonder if it wasn't mailed from there.


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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 7:25 PM PDT #14 of 43

Unfortunately, the full Enquire story is not on line. Someone summarized the J-Lo letter details on a newsgroup posting:
Lines: 54 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: rdelephant@aol.com (RDElephant) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy Date: 18 Oct 2001 17:45:26 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: FBI Thinks Novel "Vector" Was Anthrax Roadmap ?? Message-ID: <20011018134526.15509.00000072@mb-md.aol.com>

FWIW, and at the expense of citing the National Enquirer (grain of salt time) ...

Today's Palm Beach Post has an excerpt from today's National Enquirer, covering its situation. The Post did not put the excerpt on its webiste, but its so interesting, I will type it below. The story contains a lengthy description of how the manila envelope arrived, including the fact that its recipient had a feeling he should not open it and had initially thrown it in the trash unopened. It was a curious co-worker who fished it out of the trash.

The story describes the letter's contents: a cheap cigar in its cylinder, an empty can of chewing tobacco, a small detergent carton, the lewd handwritten letter to J.Lo, the pink-tinged talcum powder substance and a little plastic Star of David sticking out of the pile of powder.

Anyone have access to a National Enquirer archive?


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Bush-Hitler Remark Shows U.S. as Issue in German Election
      Posted by The Great Satan to Pokey78
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 7:20 PM PDT #2 of 13

He followed Mr. Schröder in saying, "Now the aim is to destroy weapons of mass destruction, not the toppling of a dictator."

This is Germany, after all. We love dictators!


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Defying Ann Coulter
      Posted by The Great Satan to BrianS.Wise
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 7:06 PM PDT #97 of 257

Deifying Ann Coulter? Sounds like a plan. We could build a new Parthenon at Ground Zero to worship her, and sacrifice Mohammedans there in her honor. I'm game.

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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to muawiyah
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 6:59 PM PDT #11 of 43

I have two questions related to this which require post office knowledge:
  • How long would it take a first class letter to get from Princeton, NJ to Boca Raton, FL?

  • What would be the route from NJ to FL? Would a letter coming in at the Trenton office be sorted for Boca there and dispatched by plane directly to Boca Raton, or would there be intermediate sorts at other post offices and/or land hauls along the way?


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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to motexva; ClancyJ
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 6:41 PM PDT #9 of 43

FYI

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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to Sacajaweau; HiTech RedNeck; Black Cat; browardchad; Dark Wing; Thud
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 6:39 PM PDT #8 of 43

btt

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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 6:30 PM PDT #6 of 43

No indication of whether the CDC tried bringing down FBI SA Bob Roth's bloodhound down from the Washington Field Office, to see if he could sniff out Steve Hatfill's cologne in Palm Beach.

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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 6:28 PM PDT #4 of 43

It is also interesting to note that the investigation purposely followed the trace of the incoming letters through the mail system by environmental sampling, working backwards to follow the trail. This search was started October 12, long after anthrax letters post-marked in New Jersey were found. Although six out of seven post offices examined were positive for anthrax, the trail never extended out of Palm Beach County, home of AMI and the main hijacker nest in Delray Beach.

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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz; Miss Marple; Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 6:20 PM PDT #2 of 43

This new CDC report confirms the conclusion proferred by Bob Stevens' physicians in the NEJM last November: Steven was exposed to anthrax via the letter his coworkers saw him hold up to his face on September 19. The report does not discuss the contents of that letter, or of the second anthrax letter that was apparently addressed to another AMI tabloid and opened by a mailroom worker. The Stevens' letter is presumably the mysterious J-Lo letter described by Newsweek shortly after the story broke.

Anthrax Alarm

Anxious about Anthrax

FBI Suspects Foul Play in Anthrax Cases

AMI Employee Speaks Out About Anthrax Case

FBI Ignored Letter in Anthrax Probe


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First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 09/19/2002 6:09 PM PDT with 42 comments


Emerging Infectious Diseases ^ | October 2002 | Marc S. Traeger et al
First Case of Bioterrorism-Related Inhalational Anthrax in the United States, Palm Beach County, Florida, 2001 Marc S. Traeger,* Steven T. Wiersma, Nancy E. Rosenstein,* Jean M. Malecki, Colin W. Shepard,* Pratima L. Raghunathan,* Segaran P. Pillai,§ Tanja Popovic,* Conrad P. Quinn,* Richard F. Meyer,* Sharif R. Zaki,* Savita Kumar, Sherrie M. Bruce,* James J. Sejvar,* Peter M. Dull,* Bruce C. Tierney,* Joshua D. Jones,* Bradley A. Perkins,* and Florida Investigation Team[1] *Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, Georgia, USA; Florida Department of Health, Tallahassee, Florida, USA; Palm Beach County Department of Public Health, West Palm Beach, Florida, USA; and...
     
 
Iraq Says It's Free of Nuclear Weapons
      Posted by The Great Satan to Dog Gone
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 5:27 PM PDT #42 of 47

Iraq is free of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, the country's foreign minister told the United Nations in a speech Thursday that included excerpts of a letter from Saddam Hussein.

Translation: all our anthrax is pre-positioned in New York, Washington, London, Berlin, Munich, Paris, Rome, etc. You can search Iraq high and low, and you'll never find a thing! Neeener-neeener-neeener!


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MARK STEYN: Dont be a loser, George
      Posted by The Great Satan to MadIvan
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 1:03 PM PDT #47 of 69

You seem to have completely misunderstood my posts.

Saddam has survived invading Kuwait, the attempted destruction of the WTC in '93, the attempted assassination of Bush 41, and the successful destruction of the WTC and attempted destruction of the Capitol in 2001, because he has WMD -- and because he's a wily character who understands just how far he can push his luck. He will get out of this alive. Nobody has ever taken down a regime armed with WMD, so if we can get him out, it will be a first. But, even if we are successful, we aren't going to kill him. Watch.


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MARK STEYN: Dont be a loser, George
      Posted by The Great Satan to MadIvan
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 12:23 PM PDT #43 of 69

Your reasoning escapes me completely.

I predicted here months ago that any attack on Iraq would be a long time coming. To understand why, you have to have figured out what's really going on, which Steyn obviously hasn't.

According to the Vice President, in his MTP interview the other day, the evidence suggests that Saddam was behind 9/11. Well, either that is true or it isn't true: those are the only two possibilities. So, what if it's true? Would Saddam Hussein conduct an attack on the United States on the scale of 9/11 (at minimum, the destruction of the WTC and the Capitol), even behind the veil of terrorism, without some back-end security to deter US finger-pointing and the attendant retaliation? No. What would that back-end security have to be? Well, it would presumably involve WMD -- this is the very scenario that we are using to justify regime change. But he doesn't have nukes. To the best of our knowledge, Saddam has only three WMD at his disposal at the moment: anthrax, botulinum toxin and VX nerve gas.

What happened last year, right after sleeper agents armed with box cutters took down the WTC?

Have you figured it out yet?


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Senator Grassley Asks Attorney General To Explain Actions In Anthrax Case (about Hatfill)
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 12:06 PM PDT #29 of 34

I recommend that you carefully peruse the Amerithrax web site and also do a little digging into the background of FBI Special Agent Bob Roth, the agent who has been giving Hatfill all this grief. This is not a serious investigation. It's more like a Potemkin Village. The FBI may have a serious investigation going on in parallel (it is interesting that news reports say their effort is divided between two teams), but the Washington Field Office-based "Amerithrax" operation is simply a diversion.

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MARK STEYN: Dont be a loser, George
      Posted by The Great Satan to MadIvan
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 11:56 AM PDT #39 of 69

Think it through.

Why is it that regime change in Iraq is such a desideratum? Supposedly, it's because Saddam sponsors terrorism and has WMD. I say has WMD, not will have: this is about Iraqi disarmament according to the White House, correct? And the WMD we are talking about are not nukes, right?

Why would he sponsor terrorism? To attack the United States and its allies behind a veil of deniability, correct?

What good would WMD do him -- inasmuch as he is not suicidal? Well, he could use them to blackmail the US from responding to such clandestine attacks.

So, what would a clandestine Iraqi-sponsored terrorist strike backed up with a threat to use WMD look like, exactly?

Figured it out yet?


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Strategies For Iraqi Regime Change
      Posted by The Great Satan to Vidalia
On
News/Activism 09/19/2002 12:06 AM PDT #11 of 11

Not much, since the threat was nothing more than that.

Oh, I think having 19 sleepers rearrange the New York skyline wth box cutters, and then having more sleepers send samples of the most sophisticated aerosolizable anthrax ever made to the US government is warning enough. It's predicated on the assumption that there are intelligent people in the White House, of course. A dummy wouldn't be able to figure it out, for example.


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Text of White House Response to Iraq
      Posted by The Great Satan to knak
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 7:26 PM PDT #31 of 102

Bottom line is, you could fit sufficient weaponized anthrax to turn New York, London, Paris, and Berlin into uninhabitable waste ground in one suitcase. Weapons inspections are meaningless, and Bush knows it.

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Soros on CNBC
      Posted by The Great Satan to justsomedude
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 7:19 PM PDT #5 of 24

Somebody turned over a flat rock, and out crawled soros, chretien, schroeder...

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Text of White House Response to Iraq
      Posted by The Great Satan to kayak
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 7:04 PM PDT #18 of 102

It is about disarmament of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction

Notice the present tense.


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The Politics of Flight 93
      Posted by The Great Satan to Congressman Billybob
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 7:00 PM PDT #30 of 71

Nice parable. Reminds me of the train wreck scene from Atlas Shrugged:
It is said that catastrophes are a matter of pure chance, and there were those who would have said that the passengers of the Comet were not guilty or responsible for the thing that happened to them.

The man in Bedroom A, Car No. 1, was a professor of sociology who taught that individual ability is of no consequence, that individual effort is futile, that an individual conscience is a useless luxury, that there is no individual mind or character or achievement, that everything is achieved collectively, and that its masses that count, not men.

The man in Roomette 7, Car No. 2, was a journalist who wrote that it is proper and moral to use compulsion for a good cause, who believed that he had the right to unleash physical force upon othersto wreck lives, throttle ambitions, strangle desires, violate convictions, to imprison, to despoil, to murderfor the sake of whatever he chose to consider his idea of a good cause, which did not even have to be an idea, since he had never defined what he regarded as good, but had merely stated that he went by a feelinga feeling unrestrained by any knowledge, since he considered emotion superior to any knowledge and relied solely on his own good intentions and on the power of the gun.

The woman in Roomette 10, Car No. 3, was an elderly schoolteacher who had spent her life turning class after class of helpless children into miserable cowards, by teaching them that the will of the majority is the only standard of good and evil, that a majority may do anything it pleases, that they must not assert their own personalities, but must do as others were doing.

The man in Drawing Room B, Car No. 4, was a newspaper publisher who believed that men are evil by nature and unfit for freedom, that their basic interests, if left unchecked, are to lie, to rob and to murder one anotherand, therefore, men must be ruled by means of lies, robbery and murder, which must be the exclusive privilege of the rulers, for the purpose of forcing men to work, teaching them to be moral and keeping them within the bounds of order and justice.

The man in Bedroom H, Car No. 5, was a businessman who had acquired his business, an ore mine, with the help of a government loan, under the Equalization of Opportunity Bill.

The man in Drawing Room A, Car No. 6, was a financier who had made a fortune by buying frozen railroad bonds and getting his friends in Washington to defreeze them.

The man in Seat 5, Car No. 7, was a worker who believed that he had a right to a job, whether his employer wanted him or not.

The woman in Roomette 6, Car No. 8, was a lecturer who believed that, as a consumer, she had a right to transportation, whether the railroad people wished to provide it or not.

The man in Roomette 2, Car No. 9, was a professor of economics who advocated the abolition of private property, explaining that intelligence plays no part in material production, that mans mind is conditioned by material tools, that anybody can run a factory or a railroad and its only a matter of seizing the machinery.

The woman in Bedroom D, Car No. 10, was a mother who had put her two children to sleep in the berth above her, carefully tucking them in, protecting them from drafts and jolts; a mother whose husband held a government job enforcing directives, which she defended by saying, I dont care, its only the rich that they hurt. After all, I must think of my children.

The man in Roomette 3, Car No. 11, was a sniveling little neurotic who wrote cheap little plays into which, as a social message, he inserted cowardly little obscenities to the effect that all businessmen were scoundrels.

The woman in Roomette 9, Car No. 12, was a housewife who believed she had the right to elect politicians, of whom she knew nothing, to control giant industries, of which she had no knowledge.

The man in Bedroom F, Car No. 13, was a lawyer who had said, Me? Ill find a way to get along under any political system.

The man in Bedroom A, Car No. 14, was a professor of philosophy who taught that there is no mindhow do you know that the tunnel is dangerous?no realityhow can you prove that the tunnel exists?no logicwhy do you claim that trains cannot move without motive power?no principleswhy should you be bound by the law of cause-and-effect?no rightswhy shouldnt you attach men to their jobs by force?no moralitywhats moral about running a railroad?no absoluteswhat difference does it make to you whether you live or die anyway? He taught that we can know nothingwhy oppose the orders of your superiors?that we can never be certain of anythinghow do you know youre right?that we must act on the expediency of the momentyou dont want to risk your job, do you?

The man in Drawing Room B, Car No. 15, was an heir who had inherited a fortune, and who kept repeating, Why should Rearden be the only one permitted to manufacture Rearden Metal?

The man in Bedroom A, Car No. 16, was a humanitarian who had said, The men of ability? I do not care what or if they are made to suffer. They must be penalized to support the incompetent. Frankly, I do not care whether this is just or not. I take pride in not caring to grant any justice to the able, where mercy to the needy is concerned.

These passengers were awake; there was not a man aboard the train who did not share one or more of their ideas. As the train went into the tunnel, the flame of Wyatts Torch was the last thing they saw on earth.



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Strategies For Iraqi Regime Change
      Posted by The Great Satan to ZeitgeistSurfer
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 4:11 PM PDT #8 of 11

We do. That's what the powder that came in that letter means.

Contradicting Some U.S. Officials, 3 Scientists Call Anthrax Powder High-Grade


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Drudge Siren: Iraq Accepts UN Inspections Without Preconditions
      Posted by The Great Satan to John Jorsett
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 4:09 PM PDT #131 of 398

Very interesting, although utterly predictable. Now Bush has the option to declare victory, keep quiet, not say a word about Prague, or funny white powders in threatening letters, and *maybe* the whole thing will just go away. Or, he can risk a confrontation that may cost millions of American lives.

Your move, Mr. President.


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Strategies For Iraqi Regime Change
      Posted by The Great Satan to ZeitgeistSurfer
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 4:00 PM PDT #6 of 11

Uh, what do you think this means?



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Iraq to make a "significant announcement" to UN on weapons inspectors within a few hours
      Posted by The Great Satan to Boss_Jim_Gettys
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 2:31 PM PDT #98 of 129

But that was an easy one. This is not, else Hussein would have been gone six months ago.

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WHAT will Saddam do, and WHEN? It's time to assess the situation. (Vanity)
      Posted by The Great Satan to aristeides
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 2:29 PM PDT #28 of 66

And Tojo was willing to gamble Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

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Strategies For Iraqi Regime Change
      Posted by The Great Satan to Stand Watch Listen
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 2:25 PM PDT #3 of 11

There is no question that the United States can completely isolate Saddam Hussein without firing a shot. With the appropriate groundwork and theatrics to psychologically prepare people, now underway, that is actually a rather trivial matter. The only important problem is, how to avoid Hussein or some trusted associate from giving his anthrax sleepers the "launch codes" they need to kill millions of Americans during the End Game. And, it must be admitted, there is no sure-fire solution to that problem--which is precisely what Saddam Hussein is counting on, of course.

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WHAT will Saddam do, and WHEN? It's time to assess the situation. (Vanity)
      Posted by The Great Satan to wardaddy
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 2:20 PM PDT #25 of 66

Could be, although in my view it's more likely to transition fully to a Western-style system, especially after we clean up the Middle East.

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WHAT will Saddam do, and WHEN? It's time to assess the situation. (Vanity)
      Posted by The Great Satan to wardaddy
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 2:12 PM PDT #23 of 66

Kind of ironic don't you think ....that a secular Muslim is the next big hit in our centuries old struggle with Islam?

But not surprising. The West's history with the Mid East is simply recapitulating our history with the Far East. When the natives got uppity against the "Imperial Powers" in China (Boxer Rebellion and all that), we'd just send a gunboat up the Yangtse and shell a few villages, and that would be the end of the matter. When we got hit with a surprise attack, it was from the Japanese, who had zealously studied the West, adopted a market economy, and built an industrial state. The Chinese were simply too backward and befuddled to move against us. Plus ça change...


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WHAT will Saddam do, and WHEN? It's time to assess the situation. (Vanity)
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 1:48 PM PDT #19 of 66

I agree, it seems highly unlikely our President would risk losing New York or DC unless the alternative was even worse

Well, of course that depends on what the risk level is, and whether the alternative is really worse, and what our confidence level is about that. We were here, forty years ago, with the Cuban Missile Crisis. Only trouble is, Russia hadn't already pulled off a 9-11, its ICBM placement could be verified by our satellites, and Nikita Kruschev wasn't Saddam Hussein.


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WHAT will Saddam do, and WHEN? It's time to assess the situation. (Vanity)
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 1:37 PM PDT #16 of 66

BTW, if Act III does involve going public on the anthrax threat, I think Bush would be advised to have that nuclear bomber aleady stationed over Baghdad when he makes the announcement. But we are several notches below the appropriate psychological preparedness for that right now. We are getting there, incrementally. Every day, you can feel it getting closer.

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WHAT will Saddam do, and WHEN? It's time to assess the situation. (Vanity)
      Posted by The Great Satan to mhking
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 1:28 PM PDT #14 of 66

Unfortunately, that would be Saddam, not Bush. He has the initative in this conflict and, in war, the advantage is almost always with the aggressor.

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WHAT will Saddam do, and WHEN? It's time to assess the situation. (Vanity)
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 1:25 PM PDT #11 of 66

I think this has a long way to go yet. Bush's strategy is to totally isolate Saddam Hussein, both in the eyes of the world community and from his own people and military. This is an eminently attainable goal, given the hand Bush holds, and we are already seeing rapidly accelerating progress in that direction. If and when it becomes appropriate, as the nature of the standoff becomes explicit, Bush can also evacuate Baghdad with the flick of a wrist -- e.g. by the simple expedient of putting nuclear bombers over the city, 24x7. Bush can also start taking the country apart, in a reprise of the Afghan strategy, without directly threatening Saddam's survival and bringing things to the brink.

So, there are plenty of levers to pull. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that this will be enough to get Saddam out without a catastrophe. If it isn't, we could be in for a very long stand-off, because Bush isn't going to gamble losing New York or Washington, DC by attacking Saddam directly, not IMHO.

This is a nightmare situation, no question about it. Thanks, Bubba.


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Iraq's Response to U.S. War Plans
      Posted by The Great Satan to Axion
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 1:15 PM PDT #13 of 25



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Iraq to make a "significant announcement" to UN on weapons inspectors within a few hours
      Posted by The Great Satan to HAL9000; EternalHope
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 1:03 PM PDT #26 of 129

Like I said, this is a game of Chicken, the outcome still unknown.

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WHAT will Saddam do, and WHEN? It's time to assess the situation. (Vanity)
      Posted by The Great Satan to Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 1:02 PM PDT #7 of 66

I don't think Saddam has too many sleeper agents in the USA willing to commit suicide as a gesture to mark his downfall.

They don't have to be willing to do it for Saddam. These al-Qaeda people are like attack dogs, straining at the leash. They want those codes (locker combinations, whatever). That's the beauty of this setup, from Saddam's point of view. It's golden.


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Iraq's Response to U.S. War Plans
      Posted by The Great Satan to Axion
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:52 PM PDT #3 of 25

Hussein also is quite aware that the United States should not be taken lightly and that its military has a tendency to produce unexpected successes.

Unexpected only to the Grade Z morons at STRATFOR.


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Iraq's Response to U.S. War Plans
      Posted by The Great Satan to Axion
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:51 PM PDT #2 of 25

Logic also argues that he does not yet have such weapons.

180 degrees from the truth.

Contradicting Some U.S. Officials, 3 Scientists Call Anthrax Powder High-Grade


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WHAT will Saddam do, and WHEN? It's time to assess the situation. (Vanity)
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; Miss Marple; Howlin; Alamo-Girl
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:48 PM PDT #4 of 66

Here's what Saddam is saying to Bush:
You saw what I did to you on 9-11, using a handful of men armed with box cutters. You have the analysis of that powder I sent to Daschle. You understand what a few more such men could do with that powder. So, you have to ask yourself: "Do I feel lucky?"

Your predecessor, President Clinton, was smart. He understood: what people don't know won't hurt them. Listen to him now.

I'm happy with 9-11: I got my revenge, and it was a gas. So let's call it Even Stevens, okay? Because, if you point the finger at me, you'll have to kill me. And if you kill me, you'll regret it for the rest of your days. Got the picture? How about it?

Care to venture a guess at what Bush is now saying to Saddam?


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DOOMSDAY PLOT
      Posted by The Great Satan to EternalHope
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:37 PM PDT #50 of 81

We are not currently deterred, and Saddam must certainly realize this.

I don't think he realizes anything of the sort. This is a game of Chicken: the outcome is still unknown.


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Saddam is not that mad, surely?
      Posted by The Great Satan to vannrox
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 10:47 AM PDT #13 of 35

Essay question for Roy Hattersley:

In five pages or less, describe the fundamental nature of (a) warfare, (b) terrorism, and (c) state-sponsored terrorism. Apply your analysis to the current historical context. (20 points)


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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan to wretchard
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 9:56 AM PDT #55 of 58

We are going to kill Saddam Hussein whatever the casualties, unless President Bush is a liar and all the military preparations to date are simply for show.

Bush has only promised "regime change." I think Saddam will be given an out. Enormous pressure will be brought to bear to isolate him -- is being brought to bear. That we can isolate him totally, I have no doubt. But that we will be able to get him out without a catastrophe is still up in the air. The destruction of the WTC may yet prove only the tiniest foretaste of Clinton's Legacy of Death.


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DOOMSDAY PLOT
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 9:50 AM PDT #33 of 81

The latest Hosenball article in Newsweek says much the same thing as this Post story. Given that the only biological weapon we know for sure Saddam has is anthrax, it is comical how Hosenball struggles to avoid using the "A" word in his piece:
As the Bush administration prepares to oust Saddam, one way or another, senior administration officials are very worried that Saddam will try to use his WMD arsenal. Intelligence experts have warned that Saddam may be flushing his small, easy-to-conceal biological agents, trying to get them out of the country before an American invasion. A vial of bugs or toxins that could kill thousands could fit in a suitcaseor a diplomatic pouch. There are any number of grim end-game scenarios. Saddam could try blackmail, threatening to unleash smallpox or some other grotesque virus in an American city if U.S. forces invaded. Or, like a cornered dog, he could lash out in a final spasm of violence, raining chemical weapons down on U.S. troops, handing out his bioweapons to terrorists. Thats the single biggest worry in all this, says a senior administration official. We are spending a lot of time on this, said another top official.

Some administration critics have said, in effect, let sleeping dogs lie. Dont provoke Saddam by threatening his life; there is no evidence that he has the capability to deliver weapons of mass destruction. [Then why wory about provoking him?] Countered White House national-security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Do we wait until hes better at it? Several administration officials indicated that an intense effort is underway, covert as well as overt, to warn Saddams lieutenants to save themselves by breaking from the dictator before its too late. Dont be the fool who follows the last order is the way one senior administration official puts it.

It's like Basil Fawlty: "Don't mention the [anthrax]. Whatever you do, don't mention the [anthrax]!" Some "grotesque virus" indeed! LOL! The code words are flying thick and fast.

Oh, well, some truths are better left unspoken, some ideas better left just out of focus. There's more comfort in looking through the glass darkly than in facing reality head on, is there not?


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DOOMSDAY PLOT
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 1:00 AM PDT #8 of 81

Contradicting Some U.S. Officials, 3 Scientists Call Anthrax Powder High-Grade

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DOOMSDAY PLOT
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:59 AM PDT #7 of 81

Study: 3 million would die in worst-case Calif. terror scenario

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DOOMSDAY PLOT
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:58 AM PDT #6 of 81

Anthrax Scenarios

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DOOMSDAY PLOT
      Posted by The Great Satan to All
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:57 AM PDT #5 of 81



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DOOMSDAY PLOT
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:55 AM PDT #4 of 81

Oh, dear. Well, this is a surprise, isn't it?

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DOOMSDAY PLOT
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:54 AM PDT #3 of 81

2 + 2 = 4

Q.E.D.


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DOOMSDAY PLOT
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz; Howlin; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:53 AM PDT #2 of 81

The penny drops... almost.

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A first open letter from Saddam Hussein to the peoples of the United States [BARF ALERT]
      Posted by The Great Satan to HAL9000
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:42 AM PDT #6 of 8

In only one place, which was a civilian shelter, which is the Ameriyah Shelter, more than four hundred human beings, children, young and old men and women, died in Iraq by American bombs.

I well remember this incident. The Iraqis opened up a morgue and invited the world press in to see the bodies, which included hundreds of women and children toasted to a cinder. Propagandistically, it was quite a good day for Saddam. I later read the the bunker had been targeted because it held the families of many of the Ba'ath Party leadership, and that its destruction was considered quite significant in bringing the Gulf War to a close. No doubt Saddam sees the destruction of the WTC as a little payback, as indeed this article implies.


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Written on Water
      Posted by The Great Satan to hitthefan
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:23 AM PDT #9 of 15

The crux of the problem is the provision of air support without localized basing.

No, the crux of the problem is that Saddam has advertised he has forward-positioned sleepers with highly weaponized anthrax ready to take out our greatest cities if we attempt to kill him or remove him from power.


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Conservatives blast talk show host Bill O'Reilly
      Posted by The Great Satan to Michael2001
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:11 AM PDT #9 of 14

Even Scott Ritter fought him to a draw the other day, which tells you just how bad O'Reilly really is.

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Revolutionary thinking
      Posted by The Great Satan to ThePythonicCow
On
News/Activism 09/16/2002 12:09 AM PDT #2 of 3

For a decade, commentators, analysts and military observers have been talking about a new defence 'paradigm' and the 'revolution in military affairs', but only then, when airliners were used as weapons of mass destruction, did the revolution and the paradigm take flight and a new 'warform' mobilise.

Wow. For a second there, I thought we were going to be treated to an intelligent analysis of the revolutionary implications of suicidists as human delivery sytems for Weapons of Mass Destruction. But the article just turned out to be the same old same old. Oh, well, you know what they say about generals always preparing to fight the last battle. Now we know why.


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Saddam's Little Helpers
      Posted by The Great Satan to rdb3
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 10:06 PM PDT #2 of 7

What about Bill Clinton? He's talking points are now as follows:
  • Saddam has biological WMD.
  • He will use them on us if we go after him.
  • Bush should continue to blame 9/11 on OBL exclusively, and lay off Saddam.
Do you get what he's doing? And do you understand why?


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Mark Steyn: How Bush blew his chance
      Posted by The Great Satan to Pokey78
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 10:01 PM PDT #21 of 163

Four months ago, I wrote that if war with Iraq isn't under way by the first anniversary of Sept. 11, George W. Bush might as well nickname himself President Juan Term.

Sorry, Mark, that's because you've never understood WRGO (What's Really Going On). You were too busy bloviating over the irrelevant peccadilloes of fat-cat Saudi princes to connect the dots.

WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX
YOU CAN NOT STOP US
It's called Chicken, and it's the only game in town.


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Sunday Morning Talk Show Thread 15 Sep 2002
      Posted by The Great Satan to upchuck
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 8:23 PM PDT #234 of 244

Smartest woman in America, ladies and gentlemen.

Blech! What do they take us for?


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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan to rintense
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 6:29 PM PDT #42 of 58

But, if it does happen, Iraq will be oblilterated with just one button push.

From U.S. reprisal to be 'annihilation':

Vice President Richard B. Cheney said yesterday that Saddam Hussein is "actively and aggressively" trying to build a nuclear bomb, and two key senators disclosed that U.S. officials have warned the Iraqi dictator that he and his country face "annihilation" if he deploys a weapon of mass destruction.

"We have recently let Saddam Hussein know what the consequences of his use of a weapon of mass destruction chemical, biological, or, if and when he acquires it, nuclear against any of his neighbors, and that would be annihilation," Sen. Bob Graham, Florida Democrat and chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, said on CNN's "Late Edition With Wolf Blitzer."

Mr. Graham said it has "been conveyed to Baghdad" that using a weapon of mass destruction would result "not only in the annihilation" of Saddam, "but of much of his society."

The problem remains, Saddam can only die once, and he may not care too much about the "annihilation of much of his society." Hitler didn't care.


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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan to Nogbad
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 6:21 PM PDT #38 of 58

I assume you mean "anthrax," not Ames. I don't think Ames is that special -- it's more of a matter of degree. Ames versus Vollum is like Mercedes versus Volvo, is how I might put it. If all you have is a Volvo, you might cast covetous glances at your neighbor's Merc, but it's not a night and day difference.

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Another bin Laden aide in custody after raid
      Posted by The Great Satan to vbmoneyspender
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 6:15 PM PDT #19 of 43

Larry Johnson was saying on Fox News this morning that if the Pakistanis have captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and turn him over to us, this is huge because this guy is the main operations planner for Al Qaeda.

Huge would be an understatement. Khalid knows everything. Fingers crossed it's him.


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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan to Nogbad
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 6:11 PM PDT #36 of 58

Here's a couple of Washington Post articles that speak to the issue:
Anthrax Type That Killed May Have Reached Iraq

Deadly Anthrax Strain Leaves a Muddy Trail



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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan to wretchard
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 3:11 PM PDT #25 of 58

There are two reasons why the Islamic bioweapons may not be quite ready: one, fear of blowback.

The anthrax sent to Daschle was not home-brewed by terrorists. Reportedly, it is the most highly weaponized, aerosolizable anthrax ever seen by US authorities. It is of the Ames strain -- the closely held "gold standard" for virulence, which we know Iraq went to considerable efforts to obtain by clandestine means as far back as the 1980s. The anthrax has not been used for the same reason our nuclear weapons have not been used: it was never designed to be used, but rather to deter a response and increase the scope of action of the holder. The equation is simple: we kill Saddam, and our great cities will be decimated. There is no simple solution to this problem. If there were, Saddam would have been killed months ago.


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Creating Saddam: How America helped create a monster?
      Posted by The Great Satan to ejdrapes; Mitchell; Nogbad; aristeides; Miss Marple; Travis McGee
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 3:00 PM PDT #6 of 10

LASHING OUT?

As the Bush administration prepares to oust Saddam, one way or another, senior administration officials are very worried that Saddam will try to use his WMD arsenal. Intelligence experts have warned that Saddam may be flushing his small, easy-to-conceal biological agents, trying to get them out of the country before an American invasion. A vial of bugs or toxins that could kill thousands could fit in a suitcaseor a diplomatic pouch. There are any number of grim end-game scenarios. Saddam could try blackmail, threatening to unleash smallpox or some other grotesque virus in an American city if U.S. forces invaded. Or, like a cornered dog, he could lash out in a final spasm of violence, raining chemical weapons down on U.S. troops, handing out his bioweapons to terrorists. Thats the single biggest worry in all this, says a senior administration official. We are spending a lot of time on this, said another top official.

Some administration critics have said, in effect, let sleeping dogs lie. Dont provoke Saddam by threatening his life; there is no evidence that he has the capability to deliver weapons of mass destruction. Countered White House national-security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Do we wait until hes better at it? Several administration officials indicated that an intense effort is underway, covert as well as overt, to warn Saddams lieutenants to save themselves by breaking from the dictator before its too late. Dont be the fool who follows the last order is the way one senior administration official puts it.

Inasmuch as the only "bug" or biological weapon we know for certain Saddam has is Anthrax, it's funny how the author seems to be falling over himself not to mention the "A" word here. Hmm, I wonder why that could be?


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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan to aristeides
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 2:54 PM PDT #23 of 58

Concentrated forces were just targets for nukes, and were to be avoided where they were not absolutely necessary.

As I commented above, all references to "troops" in these discussions is simply a way of avoiding saying out loud what should be perfectly obvious to everyone. The soft target and the meaningful target for a biological deterrent is the civilian population of the United States and its allies. That is what we are really talking about here, and all the crap about "troops" is simply an evasion, a way to dance around the issue without naming it.

WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX
YOU CAN NOT STOP US


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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan to wretchard
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 2:31 PM PDT #16 of 58

Unfortunately, that is not true. The missiles are still in their silos, although the silos might be in Brooklyn or Palm Beach. We have to be realistic about this: thanks to Bill Clinton, we are now in a standoff which may end up costing millions of American lives, and there is no magic wand that Bush can wave that will undo the damage. This is a very dicey situation. Clinton's legacy didn't stop with the destruction of the WTC. The final reckoning isn't in yet.

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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan to altayann
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 2:23 PM PDT #11 of 58

Are you stating that the U.S *did not* help Iraq in its' war with Iran?

No. What does that have to do with the claim that the US "created" Saddam? The US gives Egypt $2 billion a year, Israel $3 billion a year, sells weapons to Saudi Arabia, provides massive aid to both India and Pakistan, gave Stalin $11 billion during World War II, etc., etc. None of that means that the US "created" Egypt or Israel or Saudi Arabia or India or Pakistan or the Soviet Union. Like I said, pure horse puckey.


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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl; Miss Marple; Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 2:08 PM PDT #4 of 58

btt

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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 2:07 PM PDT #3 of 58

btt

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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 2:06 PM PDT #2 of 58

btt

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NEWSWEEK: Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops...
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 09/15/2002 2:06 PM PDT with 57 comments


Newsweek ^ | September 15, 2002
Newsweek Cover: 'How We Helped Create Saddam' -- U.S. Supplied Iraq With Equipment and Materials In 1980s, Including Bacteria That Can Be Used To Make Biological Weapons Administration's Worry: Saddam Could Unleash Bio Weapons On U.S. Troops, Hand Out Bio Weapons To Terrorists Story Filed: Sunday, September 15, 2002 11:13 AM EST NEW YORK, Sep 15, 2002 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- During the 1980s, when Iraq was at war with Iran, the United States decided to help Iraq and began supplying Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein with supplies and military hardware, including shipments of "bacteria/fungi/protozoa" to the Iraq Atomic Energy...
     
 
Anthrax at AMI traveled via copiers
      Posted by The Great Satan to Black Cat
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 1:27 PM PDT #28 of 50

Possible... I don't know.

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Anthrax at AMI traveled via copiers
      Posted by The Great Satan to John H K
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 1:24 PM PDT #26 of 50

So if it was the 9/11 hijackers, why did they do everything possible to kill as FEW people as possible with the anthrax they had?

Because the anthrax, the most highly sophisticated ever seen by US authorities according to Newsweek, was the product of the terrorist's sponsor state, and that state can only hope to avoid retaliation by threatening us with WMD. Guess you weren't listening to President Bush's speech to the UN on Thursday, but then, your always out of it, aren't you, John?


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Anthrax at AMI traveled via copiers
      Posted by The Great Satan to John H K
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 1:19 PM PDT #25 of 50

Bob Stevens didn't even BEGIN to feel sick till 9/30. This is perfectly consistent with a 9/18 mailing to AMI.

From the case report by Bob Stevens treating physicians in The New England Journal of Medicine, Index Case of Fatal Inhalational Anthrax Due to Bioterrorism in the United States:

Coworkers report that the patient had closely examined a suspicious letter containing powder on September 19, approximately eight days before the onset of illness. (This incubation period is highly plausible, given the modal incubation period of 10 days reported inthe Sverdlovsk outbreak.)
Uh, I think I'll go with Steven's phycisians and the New England Journal of Medicine on this one. Not that I don't have the highest respect for your intellect, John.


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Anthrax at AMI traveled via copiers
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; Shermy; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 1:01 PM PDT #20 of 50

5,000 pieces of evidence...including 800 letters.

Note that, having taken almost a year to get around to searching the building, they can now plausibly spin the investigation out for many more months without providing us an answer, and still pull a rabbit out of a hat should it be deemed necessary to do so down the road. This is a play in three acts, remember...


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Anthrax at AMI traveled via copiers
      Posted by The Great Satan to cookcounty
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 12:56 PM PDT #18 of 50

Didn't the press report last fall that the Florida anthrax was not highly refined, unlike the DC and NY variety?

There have been contradictory reports on that. The fact that Stevens got inhalation anthrax and that the anthrax was widely distributed (even if it hopped a ride on a mail cart or copy paper ream) tell you it was weaponized, unlike the brown, granular anthrax sent to the NYC media outlets, which caused only non-life-threatening cutaneous anthrax. That is, in itself, rather remarkable, because it makes AMI even more of an odd-man out in the media-directed letter campaign. Why send lethal anthrax to a Boca Raton tabloid, but innocuous granular anthrax to the New York media? I believe the resolution to that question is provided by the fact that the AMI hit was a completely separate leg of the anthrax campaign -- it came from the 9-11 hijackers themselves, and was mailed before 9-11 as a kind of sick joke calling card from Mr. Atta. The two New Jersey waves were to remind us that the sleepers are still here, and they still have "THIS ANTHRAX."


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Anthrax at AMI traveled via copiers
      Posted by The Great Satan to ClancyJ
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 12:47 PM PDT #15 of 50

What if a person picked up the top open ream of contaminated paper and loaded the copy machine? Many people fan the sheets they load into the machine to prevent them sticking. He then goes to his keyboard and does his normal work and contaminates the keyboard from his hands.

It's possible, but I think the levels of contamination we are talking about on the copier sheets must have been miniscule. You can grow a culture from a single bacterium, but you have to breath in about 10,000 spores, typically, to contract an infection. If we didn't already have a good candidate for the means by which Stevens was exposed, I might go for it as an explanation, but we do: it's called the J-Lo letter. That seems like a much better candidate.


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Anthrax at AMI traveled via copiers
      Posted by The Great Satan to motexva
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 12:42 PM PDT #14 of 50

My guess is they've known all along that the J-Lo letter was the source of Stevens' exposure, just as the New England Journal of Medicine reported, but they know that the 9/4 arrival date irrefutably connects the anthrax letters to the 9/11 hijackers, and that is a "bad truth" -- for now, anyway. Even though the feds have derogated the possible connection to the J-Lo letter (without providing any reason), they also reportedly told AMI employees not to talk about it to the press. If it was merely crank mail about a movie star, why the secrecy?

Aside from the fact that the J-Lo letter was inferred to be the source of Stevens' exposure by his co-workers and treating physicians, there are other interesting factors pointing to it as the source. One of the Delray Beach hijackers, Ahmed Alghamdi, reportedly subscribed to an AMI publication called Mira! devoted to Latin celebrities:

The Sun is a rather obscure target for an anthrax attack, whatever the source, but it is notable that the main hijacker nest in Delray Beach was rented to the hijackers by Gloria Irish, the wife of The Sun's editor, Michael Irish. Gloria Irish had multiple contacts with the hijackers over the months preceding 9/11. Michael Irish is a private pilot who flies out of the small Lantana airfield where Mohammed Atta brushed up his skills for knocking down the WTC.

The J-Lo letter was reportedly received on 9/4, seven days before 9/11. On that basis, if it had been opened immediately, people would have been coming down with anthrax at AMI just about the time of the attack.

Mohammed Atta had a sick sense of humor and apperantly enjoyed giving Americans a veiled heads up on what was coming -- see reports of his interview with the USDA loan manager. He also had a penchant for visual metaphors and riddles, viz:

"It was August 29 and my phone rang. It was Mohammed Atta. He said "I need your help with a puzzle". A puzzle? I said. Is this the right time to be talking about a puzzle? He replied "But only you can help me with this puzzle. What dooes 2 sticks, a dash and a cake and a stick mean? And he was talking about September 11."
In addition to the lewd letter addressed to Jennifer Lopez, the "J-Lo" letter also apperantly contained a tobacco tin holding a Star of David buried in powder, a cheap cigar in its cylinder, and a laundry detergent package (presumably of the small, coin-op dispenser type). The brand of the latter is unknown, but if it looked like this, it would make a certain amount of sense:

All in all (no pun intended) I don't think the publicly-available evidence is definitive. But for myself, I regard the J-Lo letter as guilty until proven innocent.


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Anthrax at AMI traveled via copiers
      Posted by The Great Satan to Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 12:04 PM PDT #8 of 50

Copies. But, as I mention above, that wouldn't explain the contamination of 24 copiers.

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Anthrax at AMI traveled via copiers
      Posted by The Great Satan to M. Thatcher
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 12:03 PM PDT #7 of 50

That wouldn't explain contamination of two dozen machines.

While I would take anything the FBI says with a grain of salt, bear in mind that this copier contamination may have been very, very light. It's seems almost certain that the anthrax letter was opened, based on the pattern of exposure, which would make it odd if the real letter was completely unremembered. The more important question is how Bob Stevens received a lethal bolus, and how his keyboard came to be contaminated. That strongly suggests -- but does not prove -- that he was directly exposed to the opened letter. All of which is, again, consistent with the J-Lo letter being the likely source of the exposure, just as the New England Journal of Medicine reported last November.


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Anthrax at AMI traveled via copiers
      Posted by The Great Satan to knak; Mitchell; Nogbad
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 11:42 AM PDT #2 of 50

So, it would be interesting to know the date on the earliest photocopied documents which show anthrax conamination.

According to the New England Journal of Medicine, the most likely source of Stevens' exposure was the so-called "J-Lo" letter. Published reports are sketchy and somewhat contradictory, but suggest this package was received about a week before 9/11, set aside as "kook mail" until later, and Stevens was exposed to the contents on 9/19. Even if the reports of a delay between the package's arrival and Steven's exposure to the contents are accurate, it is still not clear whether the package was opened on arrival, or whether it was simply set aside in the mail room unopened, until it piqued somebody's interest.


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Is bin Laden a terrorist mastermind -- or a fall guy?
      Posted by The Great Satan to palmer
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 9:14 AM PDT #26 of 27

I'm laughing at you, you silly nut.

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Is bin Laden a terrorist mastermind -- or a fall guy?
      Posted by The Great Satan to palmer
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 1:15 AM PDT #19 of 27

Then and now, Saddam distracts from the war on terror.

LOL! I think I'll trust Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rice, Woolsey, Blair, Kirkpatrick and Mylroie on this, and take your opinion with a "grain of salt." Not that I don't have the highest respect for your intellect, of course.


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Is bin Laden a terrorist mastermind -- or a fall guy?
      Posted by The Great Satan to palmer
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 12:57 AM PDT #17 of 27

Great. Whoopie-effin-do. When do they put those three thousand people back together? Got a time frame for that?

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Is bin Laden a terrorist mastermind -- or a fall guy?
      Posted by The Great Satan to palmer
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 12:42 AM PDT #15 of 27

Can you give me one example of his military genius?

Have you checked the New York skyline lately?


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Is bin Laden a terrorist mastermind -- or a fall guy?
      Posted by The Great Satan to JIHAD JOE
On
News/Activism 09/15/2002 12:10 AM PDT #11 of 27

"Bin Laden is a true believer and a funder of Islamic causes, rather than a planner and active participant," says Professor Shibley Telhani, a Middle East scholar from the University of Maryland who has followed his career. "His real influence is not as a mastermind of terrorism but as a person who is using a personal fortune to encourage others to wage war against the American interests in the Middle East he finds so objectionable."

Correct. OBL was a PR/recruitment guy, not a military mastermind. Saddam is the military mastermind. However, this is not to say OBL was simply a bit player. The establishment of a pool of would-be human missiles represents a military revolution of comparable significance to the development of the ICBM. Most of the dummies who call themselves analysts (the jokers at Stratfor and The Economist, for instance) are too thick to pick up on this, but the import of this breakthrough was not lost on Saddam Hussein. He's never wanted for the Vision Thing, let us give him that.


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Clinton: Iraq has abused its last chance
      Posted by The Great Satan to doug from upland
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 11:41 PM PDT #71 of 77

Should have added you to the ping list on this. Here's one reason why I wouldn't lay off clinton, even if he made a clean breast of the face-biting serial rape thing.

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Blair Dossier to Link Saddam to Usama Bin Laden
      Posted by The Great Satan to Samwise
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 8:45 PM PDT #109 of 179

Me neither.

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Clinton: Iraq has abused its last chance
      Posted by The Great Satan to Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl; Sabertooth
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 8:45 PM PDT #4 of 77

btt

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Clinton: Iraq has abused its last chance
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01; freeperfromnj; dead; Sacajaweau; keri; aristeides; Fred Mertz; Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 8:44 PM PDT #3 of 77

btt

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Clinton: Iraq has abused its last chance
      Posted by The Great Satan to patriciaruth; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz; Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 8:44 PM PDT #2 of 77

btt

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Clinton: Iraq has abused its last chance
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 09/14/2002 8:43 PM PDT with 76 comments


CNN ^ | December 16, 1998
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- From the Oval Office, President Clinton told the nation Wednesday evening why he ordered new military strikes against Iraq. The president said Iraq's refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors presented a threat to the entire world. "Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said. Operation Desert Fox, a strong, sustained series of attacks, will be carried out over several days by U.S. and British forces, Clinton said. "Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets...
     
 
Blair Dossier to Link Saddam to Usama Bin Laden
      Posted by The Great Satan to RobFromGa
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 8:33 PM PDT #106 of 179

A flashback to April:

April 16, 2002

Bio-defense requires smallpox vaccine
By Joseph Curl
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

     British Prime Minister Tony Blair ordered 16 million doses of smallpox vaccine after Vice President Richard B. Cheney visited last month and warned about the threat of an attack by Iraq.
     In a short stopover March 12 on his way to the Middle East, Mr. Cheney met with Mr. Blair for several hours at the prime minister's 10 Downing Street office. The vice president detailed reports from intelligence sources that said the United States and Britain would be the prime targets of a biological terrorism attack.
     Just two days after the pair met, health ministers from Britain, Japan, Mexico, France, Germany and the United States met in London to trade intelligence on vaccine stocks and methods of responding to a bioterrorism attack, the London Daily Telegraph reported yesterday.
     Three weeks later, the British government placed a $46 million order for 16 million smallpox vaccines with a British company, PowderJect of Oxford.
     A senior administration official, who yesterday confirmed the Telegraph report, said the warning was not based on new information.
     Instead, the official said, the vice president was merely passing on intelligence that Britain would be among the top targets.
     U.S. security reports say Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein would use all weapons including chemical and biological arms if attacked. Earlier this month, President Bush and Mr. Blair discussed options for handling Iraq, which has become increasingly belligerent.
     While both leaders, who met for a weekend at Mr. Bush's Texas ranch, say there are no imminent plans to attack Iraq, each has said Saddam is a threat that cannot be ignored.
     "This guy, Saddam Hussein, is a leader who gasses his own people, goes after people in his own neighborhood with weapons of chemical weapons," the president said.
     Mr. Blair was equally adamant. "The president is right to draw attention to the threat of weapons of mass destruction. That threat is real. That the threat exists and we have to deal with it, that seems to me a matter of plain common sense."
     The last naturally occurring case of smallpox in the world was in 1977, but Iraq is believed to have developed stocks of the smallpox virus during the 1980s, using smallpox from an outbreak in the mid-1970s.
     The only known remaining stocks of virus are in two laboratories, one at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta and the other in Russia.
     Bioterrorism experts fear that some of the Russian stockpile may have fallen into the hands of rogue scientists in nations like Russia, Iraq and North Korea.
     Talk of weapons loaded with smallpox, a highly contagious disease fatal to about one in three persons, dissipated in the aftermath of anthrax attacks across the United States. Since then, however, Iraq was caught attempting to ship arms to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.
     Intelligence sources think that if attacked, Saddam would unleash attackers armed with smallpox in the United States and Britain.
     Smallpox causes pustules over the entire body, kills about 30 percent of its victims and disfigures survivors. Furthermore, because its sufferers often take 10 days to show symptoms, the disease can spread quickly over large areas, including other countries.
     The United States has made dramatic steps to increase its stockpile of 15 million doses of smallpox vaccine. The government has ordered another 209 million doses from Acambis, a British pharmaceutical company. About 150 million of those doses were not due until 2004, but all will be delivered by the end of the year.



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PICTURES - Buffalo, NY area (Lackawanna) 9/13 Al Qaeda related bust.
      Posted by The Great Satan to jigsaw
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 8:07 PM PDT #36 of 51

Yes. Hillary claimed it was a typo. See this Washington Post story, or just Google up "AMERICAN MUSLIM COUNCIL MUSEUM HILLARY".

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Majority of Britons Back Bush Deadline on Iraq-Poll
      Posted by The Great Satan to Ranger
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 7:55 PM PDT #4 of 5

Remember: the UN Speech was Act I. Still two more acts to go. Do you feel lucky, Tommy?

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Reconstruction of the raid where Ramzi Binalshibh was captured
      Posted by The Great Satan to Pokey78
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 6:15 PM PDT #3 of 4

Inside, a rapid burst of gunfire was heard amid another shout of Allahu Akhbar.

Cool. The motion picture will be great fun.


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Blair Dossier to Link Saddam to Usama Bin Laden
      Posted by The Great Satan to RobFromGa
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 6:13 PM PDT #81 of 179

In the penultimate paragraph Mylroie concludes: "Given how decisive America's defeat of Iraq seemed in 1991, Saddam has accomplished a significant part of his program. He has secured the critical goal of ending UN weapons inspections, and he is now free to rebuild an arsenal of unconventional armaments. He has also succeeded in thoroughly confusing America as to the nature of the terrorist threat it has faced since the World Trade Center bombing. He is free, it would appear, to carry out more terrorist attacks, possibly even unconventional terrorism, as long as he can make it appear to be the work of a loose network of Muslim extremists." And thus Laurie Mylroie predicts Saddam Hussein will continue to attack American citizens and interests. At a minimum, we should expect attempted bombings and other attacks in the year 2001 and beyond. And so, the question about Saddam Hussein remains, what is to be done?

Book review, Study of Revenge by Laurie Mylroie (AEI Press, 2000)

More praise for Study of Revenge.



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Blair Dossier to Link Saddam to Usama Bin Laden
      Posted by The Great Satan to RobFromGa
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 5:59 PM PDT #77 of 179

I do wonder why President George W. Bush didn't ever mention a specific link between Saddam and UBL.

Actually, Bush has already gone further than that. He has linked Saddam to Mohammed Atta, operational commander of the 9-11 mission. But, so far, he hasn't done that very loudly, knowing full well that the liberal news media will leave it alone as long as they can. This is by design.

From the latest Weekly Standard:

"The U.N. speech, says a national security official with knowledge of administration planning, 'wasn't our first shot, it wasn't our last shot, and it certainly wasn't our best shot' at making the case against Saddam Hussein. 'Put it this way--the U.N. speech was the first act of a three-act play. If [Democrats] are bailing on their opposition to the president now, wait until people see Act II, when there will be new revelations about just how serious a threat we face.'"
So, now we know that Act II will involve directly linking Saddam to the 9-11 attack. Any guesses what Act II might be? What else does Bush have up his sleeve? (One possible clue)


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Blair Dossier to Link Saddam to Usama Bin Laden
      Posted by The Great Satan to RobFromGa
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 5:49 PM PDT #74 of 179

Saddam challenged Bush to a game of Chicken. That game is still in play, and the end result is still up in the air.

But what amazes me is the liberal media and the Dumbocraps thinking they could win a poker game with Bush. I mean, they had to know, he was holding all the aces. That's simple logic. How dumb can you get?


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Bushs bluster on Iraq conceals careful planning
      Posted by The Great Satan to Frapster
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 2:17 PM PDT #10 of 24

Please. Every nuance coming out of the White House is dialed in and coordinated to the master plan. This is life and death, folks. Only the sub-120 IQ folks who work for the national news media could be dumb enough not to grasp that fact.

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The Democrats in a Box [Sorry, Tommy]
      Posted by The Great Satan to Nogbad
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 10:50 AM PDT #44 of 53

The West Nile thing is phony baloney, IMO. Leahy is a dork. Keep your eyes on the ball.

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Why We Didn't Remove Saddam
      Posted by The Great Satan to liberallarry
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 10:47 AM PDT #14 of 17

We didn't remove Saddam in 1991 because he had WMD. Nobody has ever taken down a regime armed with WMD, for obvious reasons. Now, Saddam's WMD can reach the US, not just Israel, but the provocation -- his destruction of the WTC and attempted destruction of the Capitol -- is too great to let pass. Which puts us in a pretty pickle, doesn't it?

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The Democrats in a Box [Sorry, Tommy]
      Posted by The Great Satan to okie01
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 10:41 AM PDT #41 of 53

Indeed. This is being stage-managed to the hilt. The carping has already begun over the President's speech -- as they knew would happen. Bush is leading the Democrats to their own destruction. Strategery.

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U.S. Says Suspect Tied to 9/11 and Qaeda Is Captured in Raid
      Posted by The Great Satan to sarcasm
On
News/Activism 09/14/2002 12:11 AM PDT #2 of 2

Six Pakistani policemen were wounded in the joint operation.

Hats off to those men.


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Germany Withholds 9/11 Evidence over Death Penalty
      Posted by The Great Satan to kattracks
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 11:20 PM PDT #13 of 15

Let's just slap massive tariffs on German products and watch their economy tank. Who really needs a BMW (Baader-Meinhof Wagon) anyway?

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Mark Steyn: We must all be more sensitive
      Posted by The Great Satan to Ragtime Cowgirl
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 8:13 PM PDT #32 of 86

Wasn't this an urban legend?

No. See this account, by Newsweek ultra-lib Jonathan Alter of all people: Trade Center warning baffles police.


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Joe Lieberman Comes Out as the FIRST DEM HAWK, PLans to Lead the Way on Senate Resolution of Force
      Posted by The Great Satan to LS
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 8:09 PM PDT #34 of 36

Lieberman was gung-ho to get Iraq right after 9-11. This is not opportunism on his part.

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BREAKING NEWS Sources: Top al Qaeda operative captured
      Posted by The Great Satan to BlessingInDisguise
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 7:16 PM PDT #2 of 18

Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf told CNN Friday that Pakistani authorities conducted an operation two days ago that netted 10 al Qaeda suspects, including an "important" person, although he could not confirm it was Binalshibh.

Sounds like kudos are in order for General Musharraf, a true friend of the United States. Now, if we could only get the Germans on our side...


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This Time,Israelis Fear Saddam May Use Germ Warfare Attack
      Posted by The Great Satan to blam
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 4:41 PM PDT #10 of 14

I don't think he is history. I think he will get out of this alive, more than likely. Nobody has ever taken out a leader who has WMD. That has never happened in history.

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This Time,Israelis Fear Saddam May Use Germ Warfare Attack
      Posted by The Great Satan to blam
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 4:34 PM PDT #8 of 14

I won't let loose against Israel -- or the continental US -- until it's game over. He's not suicidal.

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Ramzi Binalshibh captured in Pakistan.
      Posted by The Great Satan to Dog
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 4:21 PM PDT #47 of 156

Woo-hoo!

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This Time,Israelis Fear Saddam May Use Germ Warfare Attack
      Posted by The Great Satan to angkor
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 4:20 PM PDT #5 of 14

Nuke 'em if they use bioweapons.

I would like to see us put a single B52 high over Baghdad, just executing figure eights 24x7 until Saddam is out. The people of Baghdad need to understand that certain death is just minutes away if Saddam tries anything. That should help "isolate" his ass.


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Migrants Issue May Swing Poll In Sweden
      Posted by The Great Satan to blam
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 3:58 PM PDT #3 of 10

Sounds good.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to M. Thatcher
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 12:26 PM PDT #1,744 of 1,767

A year... maybe. Three years, probably. Ten years, almost certainly. A few months, no way.

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Iraq Resolution Expected in Weeks
      Posted by The Great Satan to tomahawk
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 12:00 PM PDT #25 of 33

Correct. The problem is how to get from here to there without getting killed in the process.

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Iraq Resolution Expected in Weeks
      Posted by The Great Satan to maquiladora
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 11:55 AM PDT #22 of 33

Weapons inspections are meaningless, since enough weaponized anthrax to kill millions of Americans could already easily be hidden in a few jam jars anywhere in the 170,000 sq. miles of Iraq or the 6 million sq. miles of the USA. By shifting the debate to the subject of weapons inspections, Saddam wins. But Bush buys some time, also, while we try to build up some defense against the anthrax threat, so another couple of years or so of haggling over pointless weapons inspections might be what he has in mind, too.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to ArneFufkin
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 10:46 AM PDT #1,733 of 1,767

Nobody here has EVER predicted an assault on Iraq back in December. Are you joshing?

I've seen predictions of imminent attacks Iraq on this forum all this year. Lots of chest-beating, lots of "inside info" about troop movements, bases in Qatar, yada, yada, but no action. We're out of spare parts ("no, that's just to fool Saddam, we're going in any day now!"), it's too hot ("no that's just to fool Saddam, we're going in on the next new moon"). And so on and so forth. Well, Bush put the ball squarely in the UN court yesterday, which means nothing will happen until next year, at the earliest.


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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to ohioWfan
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 10:31 AM PDT #1,728 of 1,767

Oh, please. You are so naive. For almost a year I've been reading posters on this forum confidently telling us how we are "just about" to launch an assault on Baghdad. No UN resolutions, no jaw-jaw, no wrangling over inspectors and conditions -- just wham, bam, thank you Saddam. Now, after kicking back the whole summer, Bush gives the UN "one last chance" to fix things and this is supposed to be "tough talk." You must have a memory that goes back all of 24 hours.

Saddam is much better at this game than we are, I'm afraid. And why not? His life depends on it.


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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to ArneFufkin
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 10:06 AM PDT #1,723 of 1,767

You think George W. Bush WON'T ATTACK Iraq for corrupt reasons.

No at all. I think Bush won't attack Saddam for prudential reasons. And, I'm not saying he will *never* attack Iraq. I think there will be an escalating military campaign against targets in Iraq, probably starting next year after the UN and the Congress kill a few months debating this and that. Bush needs time: all this tough talk to the UN is briar rabbit stuff -- he wants them to kill more time with debates and weapons inspection bullsh*t.

We are going to try to isolate Saddam Hussein by many means. But we are in no better position to remove Saddam from power today than we were in 1991 -- in fact, we are in a much worse position. This is not a question of conventional military strength. We could kill him tomorrow and install an obliging, pragmatic general in his place if that were the issue. That would certainly take care of the WMD problem and the terror sponsorship problem. But, Saddam isn't suicidal. There's a reason for his defiance. He's not as weak as he looks.

In 1991 Saddam's insurance policy was his ability to strike Israel with anthrax and botulinum toxin. Now he has shown his reach extends to the continental United States. That is logical, because his provocation is much worse this time, so the insurance has to be that much better -- else he would never have attacked us. He's not stupid.

Saddam's ability to inflict mass death on his enemies in a final showdown is the ultimate governing factor in determining the risks he is prepared to take. In 1991, when his reach extended only to Israel, since his WMD were limited to liquid anthrax and botulinum delivered by aerial bombs and Scuds, he could take a chance on grabbing the world's oil supply -- calculating that he could always pull back if we took after him. Now he has aerosolizable, hand-deliverable anthrax and access to a pool of human bombs to release it here on command. That's a pretty good back-end threat: as of today, there is nothing we can do to stop him following through. That's what emboldened him to destroy the WTC and attempt to destroy the Capitol last year. Bush has no answer to that -- yet.


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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to ArneFufkin
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 9:30 AM PDT #1,719 of 1,767

I would be delighted to be proved wrong, incidentally. Unfortunately, life is not a fairy tale, and I don't think it's going to happen.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to ArneFufkin
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 9:28 AM PDT #1,718 of 1,767

Okay, let's bookmark this thread and we can revisit on December 1, because my bet is he will still be here.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to ArneFufkin
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 9:07 AM PDT #1,716 of 1,767

Give me a date when you think Saddam will be gone.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to ArneFufkin
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 9:01 AM PDT #1,714 of 1,767

Care to give me a date for when Saddam will be gone? Perhaps we could have a little bet on it.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to ArneFufkin
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 8:39 AM PDT #1,710 of 1,767

Go on living in your Pollyana dream world. Fortunately, George Bush isn't. He understands exactly what "WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US" means (it means -- kill Saddam, and kiss New York and DC goodbye). Which is why he's continuing to stall by punting this thing to the UN for more time-killing games with weapons inspections, and why we won't be taking out Saddam Hussein any time soon, except in your fantasies.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to ArneFufkin
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 12:20 AM PDT #1,683 of 1,767

They shot their wad 9/11.

Pretty good wad. Have you checked the New York skyline lately? Saddam hit us hard, and we are powerless to take him out ("WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US"). Get used to it.


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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to M. Thatcher
On
News/Activism 09/13/2002 12:18 AM PDT #1,682 of 1,767

No. He knows even less than you do. Which is nothing.

Really? Give me a date when Saddam will be gone.


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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to cake_crumb
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 9:10 PM PDT #1,677 of 1,767

We are not NOT going to take our Saddam's regime on the OFF chance that he MIGHT unleash some WMD on US in retaliation.

Lower Manhattan is already lying in ruins, thanks to Saddam Hussein. I wouldn't call it an "off chance."


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Stratfor: Bush Issues Veiled Ultimatum to United Nations
      Posted by The Great Satan to RGSpincich
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 5:47 PM PDT #54 of 64

He's not fooling around.

So, what's he going to do? Does Dubya have a magic protective shield that can protect us from Saddam's biological weapons?


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Stratfor: Bush Issues Veiled Ultimatum to United Nations
      Posted by The Great Satan to sanchmo
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 5:39 PM PDT #52 of 64

There was no ultimatum. What we heard today was just a stall, to keep the ball in play for another few months (or a couple of years once we start going with the tit-for-tat over utterly pointless weapons inspections) while we scramble to build up our defenses against Saddam's grab-bag of goodies. Nothing wrong with that, by the way -- it seems like a reasonable strategy for dealing with a very prickly situation. But let's not have any illusions about what happened today. Bush blinked.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to mass55th
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 5:20 PM PDT #1,637 of 1,767

You think Bush is going to wait for the U.N.? HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!!!! Oh! Excuse me...you did mean that as a joke right?

I just heard one of our military people on the radio predicting some kind of action next spring, when the weather cools down. See how easy it is to spin this out? It's only been going on for a year now.

Nobody is going to kill Saddam Hussein. He is personally to all intents and purposes invulnerable. That's what having WMD is all about. It works.


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Apollo astronaut says he hit man in self defense
      Posted by The Great Satan to DoughtyOne
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 5:16 PM PDT #45 of 77

What a disgusting maggot that Sibrel guy is. He sounds like real DU material.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to ArneFufkin
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 5:12 PM PDT #1,634 of 1,767

The only reason we haven't attacked Iraq to this point was a low inventory of our smart ordinance and the toll the 100 degree-plus Summer heat would exact on U.S. personnel with their special anti-agent protective gear.

Sorry, but you are dreaming.


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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to Miss Marple
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 5:11 PM PDT #1,633 of 1,767

I believe that the decision has been made to take Saddam out.

Agreed. Bush announced that almost a year ago. But nobody knows how to do it without risking the loss of millions of American lives. Saddam is not Milosevic. He's not Diem, or Noriega. He's given some thought to this problem -- the problem of getting into MAD on the cheap -- and the solution is not that hard. I think he's cracked it. If he didn't crack it -- if somebody else made the anthrax sent to Daschle last year -- then Saddam should have figured it out by now. There are no inspectors in Iraq now -- not that they would do the slightest bit of good if they were there -- and the public cross-endorsements between al-Qaeda and Saddam are flying thick and fast. He's sitting on a personal fortune of $7 billion and has had a year to put together a plan -- if he didn't have one already.

There's a reason for his defiance. He thinks he's got Bush in a tight spot and, objectively, he's probably right.


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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to mass55th
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 1:51 PM PDT #1,590 of 1,767

The wheels have already been put into motion.

It's now over a year since Saddam Hussein's terrorist proxies destroyed the World Trade Center and came within a hair's breadth of destroying the Capitol. Bush announced almost immediately that his policy was to remove Saddam Hussein. Today, he blinked, punting things back to the UN, which will now spend several months in games with Iraq over the weapons inspectors.

When Clinton decided to get rid of Milosevic, it took all of three months to accomplish the mission. What does Saddam have that Milosevic didn't have, that he can survive so much longer, while presenting an infinitely greater threat to the US? (Clue: it starts with "A" and ends with "X").


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Bush to Baghdad: Your Time Is Up
      Posted by The Great Satan to Tumbleweed_Connection
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 1:41 PM PDT #9 of 10

"Legitimacy" doesn't matter. That's words. You can't hurt people with words. Saddam understands this.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to ArneFufkin
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 1:39 PM PDT #1,581 of 1,767

Saddam Huessein will be gone from power in Iraq by Decemeber 1.

Hope so, but I seriously doubt it.


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Bush to Baghdad: Your Time Is Up
      Posted by The Great Satan to ex-Texan
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 12:58 PM PDT #5 of 10

If the U.N. fails to seek New Sanctions against Iraq we should immediately disavow our dues and stop all foreign aid through the organization.

Wow, tough talk. Saddam must be trembling in his boots.


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Scott Ritter Lying Through His Teeth On FOX Live
      Posted by The Great Satan to Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 12:42 PM PDT #215 of 415

The thing about Scott Ritter Ritter is that he feels, deep down in his heart, that the whole world revolves around Scott Ritter. Scott Ritter's going to save us all -- whether it's from Saddam Hussein or from George Bush doesn't really matter, as long as he's in the spotlight. Once he got pissed off at his boss, turning him wasn't him very difficult. This old, pre-switch PBS Frontline interview gives a pretty good feel for the guy's personality. He's a drama queen and a legend in his own mind -- the Marine corps' answer to David Brock.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to M. Thatcher
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 12:34 PM PDT #1,539 of 1,767

Really? So when's Bush going to take him out? How long is it since Saddam flattened the WTC now? Saddam doesn't seem very frightened to me. Do you think he knows something we don't?

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Scott Ritter Lying Through His Teeth On FOX Live
      Posted by The Great Satan to Darlin'
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 12:31 PM PDT #202 of 415

BTW, what does being and former marine have to do with his having been turned ? A rotten one can even sneak into the corp on occasion.

You mean like this guy?



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Scott Ritter Lying Through His Teeth On FOX Live
      Posted by The Great Satan to Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 11:27 AM PDT #153 of 415

Feinstein on Fox now. What an idiot.

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Scott Ritter Lying Through His Teeth On FOX Live
      Posted by The Great Satan to Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 11:15 AM PDT #140 of 415

Honestly, have you EVER seen anything like it?

Like I say, yes. Timothy McVeigh.


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Caption this: Nick Nolte arrested
      Posted by The Great Satan to ejdrapes
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 11:14 AM PDT #15 of 124

Nolte could play Darryl Condit in the coming TV movie.


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Scott Ritter Lying Through His Teeth On FOX Live
      Posted by The Great Satan to Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 11:12 AM PDT #132 of 415

Fascinating interview. Ritter is a creep.

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Scott Ritter Lying Through His Teeth On FOX Live
      Posted by The Great Satan to Callahan
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 10:46 AM PDT #76 of 415

This guy is a former marine. Why the hell is he contradicting his own statements and sticking up for Hussein?

This kind of flip is hardly unprecedented: An Essay on Hypocrisy.


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Scott Ritter Lying Through His Teeth On FOX Live
      Posted by The Great Satan to My Favorite Headache
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 10:43 AM PDT #71 of 415

"Lilly whites"


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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to txrangerette
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 10:31 AM PDT #1,377 of 1,767

Bush said chem & bio are threats NOW

That's why we won't be taking out Saddam Hussein any time soon. How long did it take to get rid of Milosevic, once we decided to do it? What's the difference?


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Toppling Hussein could restore Iraq as a top player in oil market
      Posted by The Great Satan to Redcloak
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 9:48 AM PDT #11 of 12

He ridiculed the idea that "big oil" would benefit from a war in the gulf. Yes, prices would spike, but over the long haul, increasing Iraqi production would lower oil prices and lower their profits.

Of course. This should be obvious to any thinking person.


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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to txrangerette
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 9:44 AM PDT #1,200 of 1,767

We're about to see what "immediately" means. Here's a clue: it doesn't mean "immediately."

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to jayef
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 9:12 AM PDT #1,072 of 1,767

What part of immediate did you not understand?

I've heard it all before. People have been predicting an imminent attack on Iraq for many months now, and I've been telling them not to hold their breath for the same. Bush keeps saying he's very patient and he hasn't even decided if military force is the way to do it. I laugh at all this talk about how Saddam is "seeking WMD." Saddam has had biological WMD for over ten years. That's why he's still in power. That's how he survived the Gulf War. He's already put Bush on notice as to what will happen to the United States civilian population if Bush tries to take him out (WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US). Bush is going to string this out as long as possible, trying to bring pressure to bear but always dancing around the real issue. This is how international relations works. The ability to hurt people always carries the day. Saddam understands this.


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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 8:39 AM PDT #936 of 1,767

Weeks will be more like it. When Iraq doesn't meet the deadline, we go.

What deadline? This will drag on for many months to come.


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Website sorry for bin Laden dead report
      Posted by The Great Satan to HAL9000
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 8:37 AM PDT #44 of 46

I guess it was a trial balloon.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 8:24 AM PDT #850 of 1,767

Well, it seems to be that Bush has bought himself a few more months by punting this to the UN for now.

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to Peach
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 7:18 AM PDT #89 of 1,767

Okay, Number 2 is Iraqi defiance of UN resolutions. Kofi's pledging to escalate the demands to the next level: "pretty please!"

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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to HairOfTheDog
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 7:16 AM PDT #71 of 1,767

Four threats to world peace...

Number 1 is Palistinian issue (surprise).

Any guesses on the other three? AIDS? Global Warming? Deforestation?


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Live Thread: Bush Speech to U.N.
      Posted by The Great Satan to Howlin
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 7:11 AM PDT #33 of 1,767

Shut up, Kofi.

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U.S. partly to blame for attacks: PM
      Posted by The Great Satan to Lorenb420
On
News/Activism 09/12/2002 6:36 AM PDT #24 of 27

Yes, Chretin, it's US greed that's to blame for 9-11.

Is there any limit to the stupidity and moral ugliness of these people?


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Mr. Irrelevant
      Posted by The Great Satan to BrianS.Wise
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 11:44 PM PDT #40 of 79

Soldiers like Scott Ritter and Timothy McVeigh are nothing new in history. The preening, self-regarding hero comes home and finds himself a nobody, and turns on his old comrades in arms. That's the story of Ajax. It's as old as Homer.

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Annan will tell President Bush that only the United Nations can sanction the use of force
      Posted by The Great Satan to USA21
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 10:54 PM PDT #71 of 131

Shut up, Koffi.

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Lou Dobbs Interviews Journalist About Iraqi Terror Connection To OKC Bombing
      Posted by The Great Satan to PJ-Comix
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 1:44 PM PDT #19 of 45

Dick Morris recounts in his book how the first Clinton cabinet meeting after OKC was devoted to brainstorming how they could maximimally exploit the tragedy for political advantage. It's not hard to imagine what signals went down the line to the FBI, once the leadership settled on the "Angry White Male" myth as the best way to score points from the bombing.

Actually, McVeigh was just Scott Ritter on steroids. See his Essay on Hypocrisy.


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FBI finishes searches of anthrax building in Boca Raton, Fla.
      Posted by The Great Satan to aristeides
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 1:31 PM PDT #3 of 3

FBI calls search of Boca anthrax building successful

"The FBI said Wednesday its investigation at the anthrax-tainted former home of The National Enquirer would advance the national investigation into last year's attacks."

"FBI spokeswoman Judy Orihuela declined to say whether investigators recovered the letter that brought anthrax into the building and fatally infected photo editor Robert Stevens."


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Ex-astronaut Aldrin accused of punching man
      Posted by The Great Satan to TomB
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 11:07 AM PDT #30 of 168

One small thump for a man, one giant leap for mankind.

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A Tear Falls, But President Holds Tightly to His Image (gag alert)
      Posted by The Great Satan to Destructor
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 11:01 AM PDT #13 of 50

Can you imagine what clinton's lower lip would look like today, if he'd still been POTUS at the time of the attacks? Barf!

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Ex-astronaut Aldrin accused of punching man
      Posted by The Great Satan to E. Pluribus Unum
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 10:43 AM PDT #22 of 168

Sibril's new book, "Stupid White Astronauts," is sure to be a big hit with the DU crowd.

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Ex-astronaut Aldrin accused of punching man
      Posted by The Great Satan to TomB
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 10:36 AM PDT #7 of 168

Sounds like we have another Michael Moore in the making here.

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Erskine Bowles and the Politics of Anti-Personality
      Posted by The Great Satan to Elkiejg
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 10:30 AM PDT #8 of 20

Gore-Bowles: that sounds really appetizing, doesn't it?

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FBI Criticized for Failing to Solve Anthrax Case (Hatfill plus Rosenberg Alert)
      Posted by The Great Satan to Sacajaweau
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 10:09 AM PDT #116 of 136

There's a lot we don't know and the FBI isn't quite ready to tell us but it's curious that they are back at AMI.

The FBI finished up their two-week-long search of the AMI building yesterday. No word yet on what, if anything, they found.


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Breaking- Airliner emergency landing in Ft. Smith Ark. Three mideast types locked in bathroom.
      Posted by The Great Satan to Drawsing
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 8:48 AM PDT #3 of 331

Your post is offensive to Muslims!

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Anthrax scientists under microscope (Hatfill or al-Haznawi Who did it?)
      Posted by The Great Satan to dead; Mitchell; Nogbad; EternalHope; patriciaruth
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 8:31 AM PDT #61 of 61

I still don't believe the anthrax attack was coordinated and executed by Iraq. Frankly, it wasn't very effective. Surely they were hoping to kill more than 5 people.

The letters weren't attacks, but rather exactly what they appear to be: threats designed to intimidate the United States (THIS IS NEXT WE HAVE THIS ANTHRAX YOU CAN NOT STOP US). Whoever made the anthrax has the capability to kill millions of Americans at, almost literally, the drop of a hat: the anthrax in those letters is far more dangerous than a nuclear bomb, as a recent RAND corp study noted (Study: 3 million would die in worst-case Calif. terror scenario ). Bush, Cheney et al understood that immediately: the concept of Iraq using its anthrax to blackmail the United States after a terrorist attack is not new to the US military, but has been mooted by Pentagon planners ever since the end of the Gulf War. It's kind of an obvious one-two play.

You'll note that there is one thing Iraq hasn't "crawfished" away from, and that is 9-11. Alone among nations in the world, Iraq endorsed the attacks and bin Laden; it did so again, today. And yet, Saddam occupies a fixed and exposed position. Superficially, he is total vulnerable. But he's acting as if he isn't. Where does he get that moxie? I think I can guess.

The notion that Iraq would cast itself as a bit player in the destruction of the WTC and the Capitol does not pass muster. That would be suicidal, and Saddam is not suicidal. If Saddam was involved, he was the prime mover, and his back-end security was something really special. Which is what we observe.

On the Hatfill question, the behaviour of the government is curious, to say the least. On my theory of the case, I see a spectrum of possibilities, which might be divided into three major scanarios:

  1. The FBI is bungling the case, but Bush, Cheney et al are taking a hands-off attitude because (a) they don't see the anthrax letters as a law enforcement problem and (b) the net effect of the bungling coordinates well with the need to stall the public.

  2. Amerithrax is an active measure conceived by the White House to stall the public while we prepare a response to the threat implicit in those letters, but the Amerithrax agents don't realize this, i.e. the top people just assigned some known deadwood like Bob Roth and Van Arp to that effort, pointed them at USAMRIID and let them spin their wheels uselessly.

  3. Amerithrax is a stall, but awareness of that extends below cabinet level to Amerithrax agents and/or Hatfill himself
On the whole, I favor possibility number 2, but I don't exclude that the truth might be closer to 1 or 3.


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Al Qaeda website: OSAMA IS DEAD!
      Posted by The Great Satan to Pokey78
On
News/Activism 09/11/2002 8:04 AM PDT #11 of 351

More bad news for little tommy daschle, along with the unemployment numbers.

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FBI finishes searches of anthrax building in Boca Raton, Fla.
      Posted by The Great Satan
On News/Activism 09/10/2002 10:50 PM PDT with 2 comments


The Associated Press ^ | 9/10/02 11:37 PM
BOCA RATON, Fla. (AP) -- Federal investigators completed their search Tuesday of the former headquarters of American Media Inc. after scouring the building for 12 days looking for clues in last year's anthrax attack. "We wrapped up and we left," FBI spokeswoman Judy Orihuela said. She declined to comment further. Hundreds of samples were collected from the quarantined building, but investigators would not say if they found the source of the anthrax that fatally infected photo editor Robert Stevens last fall. Stevens was the first of five people to die nationwide in the bioterror attacks. Armed with new techniques to...
     
 
FBI Criticized for Failing to Solve Anthrax Case (Hatfill plus Rosenberg Alert)
      Posted by The Great Satan to Alamo-Girl
On
News/Activism 09/10/2002 10:36 PM PDT #104 of 136

Not bad. It was something like that, I expect. A cigar is a multivalent symbol -- it could stand for sex, decadance, clinton, celebration, a tower, a one, an airliner -- so that doesn't bother me much, given that we don't know what the letter said. A Star of David buried in a powder seems obvious. The only really weird one was the detergent packet and I think the "all"/"911" idea is just a dandy explanation for that.

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FBI Criticized for Failing to Solve Anthrax Case (Hatfill plus Rosenberg Alert)
      Posted by The Great Satan to Alamo-Girl
On
News/Activism 09/10/2002 10:27 PM PDT #101 of 136

Was the tobacco can "snuff?"

My inference is that the tobacco can may have contained the powder with the Star of David, because it's hard to imagine how else the Star of David could have been "buried" in powder, otherwise. The symbolism of a Star of David buried in powder, used to deliver an anthrax attack, would be obvious. A pun on "snuff" sounds a bit sophisticated for a non-native speaker, although it would also make sense, of course.


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Live on C-Span - House Armed Services Committee hears from former UN Weapons Inspectors
      Posted by The Great Satan to Arthur Wildfire! March
On
News/Activism 09/10/2002 10:14 PM PDT #49 of 58

I saw something pass between Biden and Ritter at that moment, almost as though something evil in Biden went across that room and bit him. It was one ugly moment.

Great imagery! LOL!


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Live on C-Span - House Armed Services Committee hears from former UN Weapons Inspectors
      Posted by The Great Satan to agrace
On
News/Activism 09/10/2002 6:14 PM PDT #44 of 58

Check the link in my post -- that is not from the hearing. Spertzel has made no secret of the fact that he thinks the anthrax in those letters came from Iraq. And, he would know.

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Meet The Press: Vice President Cheney[TRANSCRIPT]
      Posted by The Great Satan to Lady In Blue
On
News/Activism 09/10/2002 6:11 PM PDT #3 of 9

       MR. RUSSERT: President Clinton also said he was obsessed with Osama bin Laden. Do you see evidence of that?
       VICE PRES. CHENEY: You mean while he was president?
       MR. RUSSERT: Yes, sir.
       VICE PRES. CHENEY: Well, you know, Im sure he was concerned about it. Obviously, I wasnt part of his administration. I dont know the extent of which it dominated the thinking. Im sure that there were many people in the Clinton administration who were concerned about Osama bin Laden.

Oh, man, I love Dick Cheney. That was hilarious.


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