There are at least two sides to every story.
FAKE TERROR :
"Is terrorism inside the United States really from outside.....
It's the oldest trick in the book, dating back to Roman times;
creating the enemies you need."
And so it came to pass:
(From a Freerepublic forum) ________________________________________________________________________________________
So far on this thread, we have had you here as Korova Milk Bar, The Great Satan, Allan Quatermain, and FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper. And we also have Clinton's a Rapist.
Allan Quatermain
Account # 60935
Signup 2001-06-03
Messages 3 replies
The other post was before 9/1/01. I am sure you signed up another account and had it ready to go for totally innocent reasons.
Clinton's a rapist
Account # 19264
Signup 1999-02-26
And
The Great Satan
Account # 75639
Signup 2001-12-28
And
FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper
Account # 64128
Signup 2001-07-22
And
Korova Milk Bar
Account # 112679
Signup 2003-06-07
This does wonders for the theories you have been pushing.
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Pop Quiz (Multiple Personality Disorder Tribute Thread)
June 7, 2003 | Korova Milk Bar
Posted on 06/07/2003 4:20 PM PDT by Korova Milk Bar
Edited on 06/07/2003 5:17 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
click here to read article
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Pop Quiz:
One of these two photographs depicts an elaborate piece of stagecraft featuring an actor playing the role of his life in an extraordinary charade calculated to distract a gullible public from the embarassing reality of a catastrophic failure in national defense planning. Which one?
1 posted on 06/07/2003 4:20 PM PDT by Korova Milk Bar
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To: Mitchell; cgk; Fred Mertz; EternalHope; aristeides; pttttt; bonfire
With all eyes increasingly on Hatfill, I thought it was time for a tribute thread. Come here and share your notes, memories and theories about the man and his associates like Pat Clawson, Bob Roth, Bryan Blankenship, Thomas G. Connolly, Prof. Ralph Kirby, Prof. Lothar Bohm, Dr. John Michie, etc. Steve, I know you're reading this. Don't be a stranger.
2 posted on 06/07/2003 4:25 PM PDT by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: Korova Milk Bar
Korova Milk Bar
Since Jun 7, 2003
The makeup in your profile pic is disgusting. Welcome to FreeRepublic, I think.
3 posted on 06/07/2003 4:26 PM PDT by EggsAckley ( Midnight at the Oasis)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator
Comment #5 Removed by Moderator
To: Korova Milk Bar
And you know it's forged how?
6 posted on 06/07/2003 4:35 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Peach
Oh, it's forged alright.
7 posted on 06/07/2003 4:36 PM PDT by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: The Great Satan
That's not an answer.
8 posted on 06/07/2003 4:37 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Korova Milk Bar
I hope you're wearing rubber soled shoes....
ZOT!
9 posted on 06/07/2003 4:40 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: Badabing Badaboom; Fred Mertz; Dog Gone; Lion's Cub; piasa
"Mr. Ashcroft has not only violated Justice Department regulations and guidelines, but in my view, he has broken the 9th Commandment: thou shalt not bear false witness."
Steven Jay Hatfill, MD, "PhD"
August 2002
10 posted on 06/07/2003 4:41 PM PDT by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: EggsAckley
"The makeup in your profile pic is disgusting. Welcome to FreeRepublic, I think.
I guess you're no fan of Clockwork Orange....but what does that have to do with welcoming someone to FR?
11 posted on 06/07/2003 4:43 PM PDT by Katya
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To: Katya
This guy smells zotworthy, that's what.
12 posted on 06/07/2003 4:44 PM PDT by EggsAckley ( Midnight at the Oasis)
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To: Admin Moderator
psst...
13 posted on 06/07/2003 4:45 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: Katya
Aside from the make-up, questionable content for this thread.
14 posted on 06/07/2003 4:45 PM PDT by Peach
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To: socal_parrot
very well put.....Karovas pop quiz is rather Zottish....
15 posted on 06/07/2003 4:47 PM PDT by Katya
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To: Korova Milk Bar
Hatfill has not been convicted of any crime related to Amerithrax. He is not a perfectly honest man. That does not make him a murderer or a terrorist.
16 posted on 06/07/2003 4:51 PM PDT by aSkeptic (I am a computer chair critic, so please don't get too excited.)
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Which one of you posted the tread??? I'm not following your meaning.
17 posted on 06/07/2003 4:53 PM PDT by Helix
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To: Badabing Badaboom; Wallaby; apokatastasis; Balata; riri; oceanview
Here is the famous e-mail from Hatfill's Msc thesis advisor, Prof. Lothar Bohm, to his PhD thesis advisor, Prof. Ralph Kirby, supplied to researcher Stephen P. Dresch by University of Stellenbosch flow cytometry expert Dr. John Michie. The e-mail implicates Hatfill, Bohm and Kirby in an extraordinary piece of scientific misconduct:
Date: Fri 17 Sep 93 12:47 GMT+200
From: elb@maties.sun.ac.za
To:kirby@dtkl.ym.edu.tw Subject:
Dear Ralph Don Hendry gave me your adress. 2 problems here:
Our new 560 bp PCR product still does not give continuous melts. In touch with DIAGEN it turns out that the handbook refers to a method called G-clampingmto stabilize DNA and generate decent Y-fragments. Regrettablyneither Steven nor you came up with this solution. Steven has been seeing our poor metls for the last 9 month. We are rather disappointed if not to say PISSED OFF with so much ignorance, carelessness and indifference.. 9 month of timne plus 4000 odd Rand oliogs wasted. You are both DEEP in our memory.
A japanese workers has problems in reproducing the Thalidomide work on K 562. After some correspondence relating to buffers and drug metabolism using S-9 ftraction he still cannot do it. When I discussed the problem with Steven it became clear that he could not have done the experiment as his handling of the S-9 fraction indicated total confusion.
Taking these observations and the wonderful TGE melt mitochondrial DNA referred to in the Lancet paper it also transpires that the experioment could not have been done by S. because essential parts of the TGE machine accessories were still unopened. It goes to show that S takes great liberties with the truth.
I think you may wish to be on guard when you assess his Ph.D. thesis not to risk a scandal. I can onluy pray that the Japanese worker is not going to blow the whistle-but with increasing interest in Thalidomide somebody else might. I find it utterly distasteful and unprofessional to practice science in this way and I am reassessing my position regarding S. and asking you again for advice
LOTHAR BOHM
On the private Internet forums where individuals close to the FBI's Amerithrax investigation exchange data, the word is that Prof. Kirby, formerly a well-respected scientist and head of the South African Society for Microbiology, was forced out of his position at Rhodes University and had to flee to Taiwan owing to his involvement with Hatfill. If this e-mail is for real, who could be surprised at that?
18 posted on 06/07/2003 4:53 PM PDT by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: The Great Satan
Why did you answer a question asked of milk bar?
And why did you say "With all eyes increasingly on Hatfill, I thought it was time for a tribute thread" when the thread was posted by milk bar?
And why does milk bar's profile have a link to your profile?
Inquiring minds want to know.
19 posted on 06/07/2003 4:54 PM PDT by I Am Not A Mod
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To: socal_parrot
Ummmmmm......
check out Satan's first post.....
Get it?
20 posted on 06/07/2003 4:54 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: The Great Satan
I'd like to know if John Michie is reading this. John if you're there - why did you destroy your colleague, Luthar Bohm's career by supplying the email he wrote revealing that he helped cover up a shocking case of scientific misconduct 10 years ago? You did publish a paper with him as early as 3 years ago, so you must be at least on talking terms.
The tension must he high in the coffee room at Stellenbosch University these days.
21 posted on 06/07/2003 4:54 PM PDT by Badabing Badaboom
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To: Korova Milk Bar
I guess your new SN is not going over too well... ;)
22 posted on 06/07/2003 4:55 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: aSkeptic
"He is not a perfectly honest man. That does not make him a murderer or a terrorist."
---
That about sums it up. I agree.
23 posted on 06/07/2003 4:56 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: Korova Milk Bar
Careful there, Korova. You're going to steal my thunder! ;)
24 posted on 06/07/2003 4:57 PM PDT by Korova Milk Bar
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To: The Great Satan
"On the private Internet forums where individuals close to the FBI's Amerithrax investigation exchange data, the word is that Prof. Kirby, formerly a well-respected scientist and head of the South African Society for Microbiology, was forced out of his position at Rhodes University and had to flee to Taiwan owing to his involvement with Hatfill. If this e-mail is for real, who could be surprised at that?"
--
I thought earlier you showed evidence that Kirby was not forced out because of this and that this e-mail is a forgery. If the those "close to the FBI Amerithrax investigation" couldn't find what you did, we are in deep trouble.
25 posted on 06/07/2003 5:00 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: Helix
Read about the anthrax theories from our resident tin foilers, and you'll never get to the bottom of their meanings.
26 posted on 06/07/2003 5:02 PM PDT by habs4ever
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To: Korova Milk Bar
"To: Korova Milk Bar
Careful there, Korova. You're going to steal my thunder! ;)
24 posted on 06/07/2003 4:57 PM PDT by Korova Milk Bar "
---
Problem with switching SN, you forget which one you are using... and really end up talking to yourself.
27 posted on 06/07/2003 5:02 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Well, IMO, it's a forgery, and the whole story is a plant. But that's just one punk's opinion, right?
28 posted on 06/07/2003 5:03 PM PDT by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: Korova Milk Bar
 |
| There is no Korova Milk Bar |
29 posted on 06/07/2003 5:03 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Korova Milk Bar
What is this? A personal vendetta? Why are you posting real names of people who you think will read it here on FreeRepublic? Why not just call their attention to your webpage? I don't understand. Did you work with Hatfill or something?
30 posted on 06/07/2003 5:04 PM PDT by arasina (Thank God the White House now has plenty of CLEAN laundry!)
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To: FairOpinion
LOL! I got me Netscape and me IE6.0, but some times I get'm mixed up.
31 posted on 06/07/2003 5:05 PM PDT by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: socal_parrot; Constitution Day
So you smell ozone too?
32 posted on 06/07/2003 5:08 PM PDT by dubyaismypresident (Zot..... incoming)
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To: FairOpinion
Ding! ding! ding! get that man the little doggie...
These pet anthrax theories are tedium in action, but then again, we were told for over a year about how how we were witnessing the Great Anthrax Iraq Standoff where the NYC would be spared annihilation if we left Saddam alone...
I think a certain poster wishes he was a superhero...
33 posted on 06/07/2003 5:08 PM PDT by habs4ever
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To: The Great Satan
I got my zotmaster 2000 and the plain zotter100B. I get them mixed up too.
34 posted on 06/07/2003 5:09 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: arasina
It's about effing time that someone in our marvelous press looked in to this, don't you think? I mean, the anthrax killer murdered five people, inflicted $2 billion damage on the US economy, terrorized the whole country, and provided Colin Powell with a pretext for an $80 billion invasion of Iraq. Meanwhile, nobody seems to take the FBI's "investigation" very seriously. WFT is going on here? Hello? Will somebody in the press kindly contact these people and get to the bottom of it?
AMERITHRAX: ENTITYRELATIONSHIP DIAGRAM (VERSION 1.3)
FBI Agent Bob Roth ------------ works for ------------> Van Harp Thomas G. Connolly ----------- replaced ---> Victor Glasburg
Case officer on unsolved killing Retiring head of FBIs WFO Recipient of the Intelligence Medallion, Ran interference for Hatfill
Of DC intern Joyce Chiang Accused in FBI coverup the CIAs highest civilian honor after Nic Kristofs Mr.Z
^ of Ruby Ridge killing ^ story appeared in the NYT
| |
| |
--------------- harassed by ------------------- ------------ represented by --------------
| |
| |
Pat Clawson <---------- fronted by ------- Dr. Steven Hatfill (USMC) ----- financially supported by ----> girlfriend (no name)
Right-wing broadcast journalist Fort Detrick bioweaponeer, |
VA-based computer networking expert author of Emergence, an unpublished |
Friend/business associate of the late ------------- novel in which Saddam Hussein attacks |
Danny Casolaro of INSLAW/IraqGate fame | the US using bioterrorist proxies |
| | | |
| | | |
works for | toe allegedly run over by ------ allegedly harassed by ---
| | | | |
| | | | |
V | V V V
Lt. Col. Oliver North (USMC) | Bryan Blankenship (USMC) FBI Agent Pamela Lane FBI Agent Jennifer Grant
Ran Iran-Contra, a covert operation | VA-based computer networking expert Supposedly with WFO Supposedly with WFO
authorized by Pres. Reagan to trade |
arms to Iran in exchange for hostages |
---- brainstormed plot for Emergence at the VA house of --> DC attornee George Borsari
35 posted on 06/07/2003 5:10 PM PDT by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: The Great Satan; Korova Milk Bar
So are you like Clark Kent and Superman or more like Dr. Jeckell and Mr. Hyde?
36 posted on 06/07/2003 5:13 PM PDT by dubyaismypresident
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To: dubyaismypresident
I love the smell of ozone in the evening...
37 posted on 06/07/2003 5:14 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: Korova Milk Bar
This is gonna get interesting...
38 posted on 06/07/2003 5:15 PM PDT by Jay D. Dyson (Liberty * Liberalism = Constant)
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Wow, this is the strangest thread I've ever seen. Some guy is talking to himself, another guy is inserting pie-charts and diagrams...someone give me the Cliff Note's version here.
39 posted on 06/07/2003 5:16 PM PDT by rightisright (E Tan E Epi Tas)
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To: rightisright
Wow, this is the strangest thread I've ever seen. Some guy is talking to himself, another guy is inserting pie-charts and diagrams...someone give me the Cliff Note's version here.
I know! It's like a cross between Ross Perot and Dick Gephardt. Truly creepy!
-Jay
40 posted on 06/07/2003 5:17 PM PDT by Jay D. Dyson (Liberty * Liberalism = Constant)
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To: FairOpinion
Can anyone authenticate whether this is a real email, or a forgery?
41 posted on 06/07/2003 5:18 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Lurking since 2000.)
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To: Jay D. Dyson
And the funny thing is, I thought there was going to be a pop quiz :-)
42 posted on 06/07/2003 5:19 PM PDT by rightisright (E Tan E Epi Tas)
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To: Jay D. Dyson
Remember those three geeks on the X-Files this thread reminds me of one of their shows.
43 posted on 06/07/2003 5:22 PM PDT by Dog
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To: Dog
I found another screen name this one had. It too is now gone.
People are strange.
44 posted on 06/07/2003 5:23 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: socal_parrot
ANA 1
NJ O
13:52 1st period
45 posted on 06/07/2003 5:24 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: hole_n_one
Screen shot of the goal or celebration, perchance?
46 posted on 06/07/2003 5:26 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator
Well done. And, only some people are strange. The rest of us are brilliant.
47 posted on 06/07/2003 5:26 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Pan_Yans Wife; The Great Satan
Ask "The Great Satan". He posted detailed information and logic that pretty much convinced me, that it is a forgery.
But I don't buy his full theory, that it was actually forged by Hatfill.
This whole anthrax case, and Hatfill accusations have a large number of things which don't make any sense.
I think there is a lot of evidence being ignored, which point to Al Qaeda and Iraq, not Hatfill, so who cares about irrelevant details about Hatfill.
None of these "revelations" which may or may not be true have anything to do with him being the anthrax killer.
But some people who try to pin it on Hatfill keep coming up with something shady about Hatfill, none of which has anything to do with any evidence against him in the anthrax attacks, of course.
48 posted on 06/07/2003 5:26 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: Admin Moderator
Believe it or not, I missed it!
49 posted on 06/07/2003 5:28 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: Peach
"And, only some people are strange. The rest of us are brilliant. "
---
I thought most brilliant people ARE strange.
50 posted on 06/07/2003 5:29 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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Pop Quiz (Multiple Personality Disorder Tribute Thread)
June 7, 2003 | Korova Milk Bar
Posted on 06/07/2003 4:20 PM PDT by Korova Milk Bar
Edited on 06/07/2003 5:17 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
click here to read article
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: FairOpinion
Speak for yourself. LOL
51 posted on 06/07/2003 5:33 PM PDT by Peach
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To: Korova Milk Bar
I can't speak for anyone else on FR, but we are not amused.
52 posted on 06/07/2003 5:35 PM PDT by Old Professer
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To: Admin Moderator
ANA 2
NJ 0
5:36 1st period
53 posted on 06/07/2003 5:41 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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54 posted on 06/07/2003 5:46 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: hole_n_one
Quack.
55 posted on 06/07/2003 5:48 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Allan
Ping.
56 posted on 06/07/2003 5:50 PM PDT by Mitchell
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To: FairOpinion; Badabing Badaboom; pttttt; jpl; Alamo-Girl; cgk; bonfire; Mitchell
It's "Lifestyles of the Dull and Humorless" on FR today, isn't it, my brothers? Sigh...
57 posted on 06/07/2003 5:55 PM PDT by FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper
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To: EggsAckley
Fried. . .
You OBVIOUSLY don't slooshie Nadzat, my droog. . . nor do you recognize "Little Alex" from "A Clockwork Orange".
(aka Malcolm MacDowell, 1970)
58 posted on 06/07/2003 5:56 PM PDT by Salgak (don't mind me: the orbital mind control lasers are making me write this. . .)
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To: Admin Moderator
And to think, I kept thinking I had never tried this chocolate bar! :)
Is this considered a ZOT!?
59 posted on 06/07/2003 5:58 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Lurking since 2000.)
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To: keri
ping
60 posted on 06/07/2003 6:08 PM PDT by Allan
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
No, not really. Well, sort of.
Zots are more when one of our daily returning trolls show up.
This was more of just a ban.
61 posted on 06/07/2003 6:10 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: hole_n_one
Wooo...friggin....hooo!!!
62 posted on 06/07/2003 6:19 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: socal_parrot
Devils just scored.
63 posted on 06/07/2003 6:20 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator
Kill joy.
64 posted on 06/07/2003 6:21 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: socal_parrot
I want the Ducks to win tonight.
65 posted on 06/07/2003 6:22 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper
I think those who haven't been following the anthrax threads didn't have the context.
66 posted on 06/07/2003 6:22 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: Admin Moderator
Cool...so you're the smart Admin Mod.
67 posted on 06/07/2003 6:24 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: socal_parrot
Aren't we all?
68 posted on 06/07/2003 6:24 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator
You betcha...
socal_parrot....unbanned since 11-14-2000
69 posted on 06/07/2003 6:28 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: socal_parrot
Notice the qualifier by the AM of tonight as in "I want the Ducks to win tonight".
You don't suppose the AM wants the Ducks to win tonight for the simple reason that it would give NJ a chance to win it at the Meadowlands in a 7th and deciding game, do you?
70 posted on 06/07/2003 6:34 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: hole_n_one; socal_parrot
I haven't decided who I want to win. I want to see a game seven, and I want it to be a classic.
71 posted on 06/07/2003 6:36 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: FairOpinion
I think those who haven't been following the anthrax threads didn't have the context.
Even some of us who have been following the anthrax threads don't have the context.
72 posted on 06/07/2003 6:37 PM PDT by Allan
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To: hole_n_one; Admin Moderator
AM obiviously has a corner on the hot dog market in Jersey.
73 posted on 06/07/2003 6:41 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: socal_parrot
Hot pretzels! Get yer hot pretzels here! Hot pretzels!
74 posted on 06/07/2003 6:43 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper
It wouldn't be the first time.... (Of course, I didn't see what precipitated all this, since the posts were deleted before I got here.)
75 posted on 06/07/2003 6:43 PM PDT by Mitchell
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To: Admin Moderator
There are few things filled with more drama than a 7th game for a World Championship.
I hope we get the chance to watch a classic game for the Cup on Monday night.
It's beginning to look pretty good.......
ANA 4
NJ 1
2:40 2nd
76 posted on 06/07/2003 6:44 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: socal_parrot; hole_n_one
Ducks score!
One step closer to me getting my wish.
Love watching a good hockey game, and very few things beat a great game 7 in the Stanley Cup.
77 posted on 06/07/2003 6:44 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: hole_n_one
Ducks up 3-1
78 posted on 06/07/2003 6:45 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: Admin Moderator
oops...4-1
79 posted on 06/07/2003 6:45 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: Admin Moderator
HBO...
Arturo Gotti vs. Mickey Ward
80 posted on 06/07/2003 6:46 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: Admin Moderator
For the first time in this series, Kariya does not seem to be hindered by what I think was some type of shoulder injury.
Tonight he's winding up and unloading his shots with full force.
81 posted on 06/07/2003 6:50 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: Admin Moderator
You banned TGS? Come on now! He's a great poster and was just having some fun. I must be missing something here....
82 posted on 06/07/2003 6:57 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: Allan
There have been discussions about the supposed e-mail between Hatfill's thesis advisors and the forged Ph.D diploma, both of which have been on the news.
And those following the anthrax threads know of The Great Satan's theory, part of which is shared by others, the other part is shared by very few.
His opinion is that that Al Qaeda and Iraq are behind the attack, and most definitely not Hatfill. This is the part some of us, myself included agree with.
But then he takes it one step further, which I consider a real stretch, that Hatfill is not a victim of either being set up by the FBI deliberately, or a victim of their bungling of the investigation, but a willing participant, even active orchestrator in the charade of "blame Hatfill".
Once you take that into consideration the thread makes more sense, although I can't imagine why he decided to do it under another SN, when anyone following the anthrax discussions will know instantly that Milkbar and Satan are one and the same.
83 posted on 06/07/2003 6:57 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: bonfire
Who's TGS?
84 posted on 06/07/2003 7:05 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: socal_parrot
NJ assessed a double minor penalty.....
Ducks on a 4 minute powerplay.
85 posted on 06/07/2003 7:10 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: hole_n_one
The Great Satan and at least one other name on this thread.
Or is that two other names on this thread? Hmmm. Hmmm. Hmmm. I wonder just how many names I am going to end up finding?
86 posted on 06/07/2003 7:14 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator
ANA 5
NJ 1
14:20 3rd period
87 posted on 06/07/2003 7:15 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: hole_n_one
And another name, not on this thread, which I have already taken out.
88 posted on 06/07/2003 7:15 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: hole_n_one
Answer to previous question to bonfire...TSG=The Great Satan.
Also..I was invited to view games 3 and 4 from a luxury suite, but was out of town. Tonight I'm home, no invite.
89 posted on 06/07/2003 7:15 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: Admin Moderator
You can smell 'em, huh?
90 posted on 06/07/2003 7:20 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: FairOpinion; Admin Moderator; All
One of these two photographs depicts an elaborate piece of stagecraft featuring an actor playing the role of his ..... (blah, blah, blah).... Which one?
I only see one picture at the top, not two. Have the original pictures been replaced?
And what was deleted on replies 4 & 5? Was it something that might add some context to this?
As it turns out, neither of those screen names had a future, Mr. Anderson.
Why hasn't Mr KosovoMilkBar been banned? Are we keeping him around for sport?
I always miss the fun.
91 posted on 06/07/2003 7:20 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Nita Nupress
Check out the "history" the AM left.
This is one weird thread.
92 posted on 06/07/2003 7:23 PM PDT by EternalHope (Boycott everything French forever.)
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To: Admin Moderator
I wonder what screen name Barbara Rosenthal goes by? :-)
93 posted on 06/07/2003 7:23 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: The Great Satan
some times I get'm mixed up.
Take the "'m" out of this sentence, and I venture and say it's the most accurate thing you've ever written.
94 posted on 06/07/2003 7:25 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: The Great Satan
The Trilateral Commission, along with the Committee on Foriegn Relations are both trying to overcome the alliance between the Grays (Zeta Reticulli, not the ones descended from the Reptillians) and the Men In Black. Sadly, the only ones left that actually escaped from the sleeper agents of the Warren Commission are JFK and Oswald, who were separated at birth, and faked their own deaths. Elvis, the CIA sleeper, was the one that tried to shoot Kennedy from the grassy knoll, but failed when H.G.Wells prototype time machine phased in for a moment and skewed the path of the bullet (producing the "magic bullet" by moving the projectile back in time and space, and allowing it to trace through the same physical space twice.) Elvis got even years later by fixing the brakes on Teddy Kennedy's car, but failed that too. Anyway, the real problem is that there IS NO OIL under Iraq...it is all a coverup...the real oil is UNDER ISRAEL but nobody knows that...the pipeline is built from a plasiconcrete invented by NICOLAS TELSA! It was put in place a six thousand years ago by Egyptian "gods" who were really just incredibly advanced Aztec engineers. And you see, it is just a mater of time before I SLIP and begin to TYPE in ALL CAPS and begin frothing FROM THE MOUTH and BABBLING ABOUT THE MEANING OF THE NUMBER 23, AND ON AND ON...
95 posted on 06/07/2003 7:25 PM PDT by 50sDad (Anymore of THAT and I'm turning the car right around and we're going home!)
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To: Nita Nupress
Just some links to Mordechai Levy's JDO site.
96 posted on 06/07/2003 7:26 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Nita Nupress
Go to "history" of the thread and click on "original", you will see a picture of Saddam and Hatfill side by side, with some comment about which one is the great deceiver or something like that.
TGS believes that Hatfill is not a victim of FBI's investigation, but a willing participant, even helping to orchestrate the "let's get Hatfill" charade, so he thinks that just as Saddam has been manipulating world opinion, Hatfill is only playing a role of the victim.
I don't agree with this theory, think it's too much of a stretch, but that is the theory Satan put forward multiple times.
97 posted on 06/07/2003 7:27 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: Nita Nupress
I always miss the fun.
Not always, just usually.
98 posted on 06/07/2003 7:27 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: dubyaismypresident
Clark Kent and Superman or more like Dr. Jeckell and Mr. Hyde?
More like Laurel and Hardy, without the humor.
99 posted on 06/07/2003 7:27 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: EternalHope
Ah. Thanks. I guess now I'll have to go look up " the JDO, Mordechai Levy's extremist group" on Google.
"Weird" is right. Sometimes I sit here and picture the MIBs playing mind games with each other. But more likely it's someone who needs to get a life.
100 posted on 06/07/2003 7:29 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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Pop Quiz (Multiple Personality Disorder Tribute Thread)
June 7, 2003 | Korova Milk Bar
Posted on 06/07/2003 4:20 PM PDT by Korova Milk Bar
Edited on 06/07/2003 5:17 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
click here to read article
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To: 50sDad
I understand now. ....Thanks for clearing that up.
101 posted on 06/07/2003 7:33 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: FairOpinion
Yeah, well, the Satanmeister lost me when he started saying that Hatfill was playing a willing victim. Also, when he kept talking in riddles and ending every reply with a question.
By the way, thank you for taking the time to explain it.
102 posted on 06/07/2003 7:34 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Mr. Mojo; socal_parrot; Admin Moderator
FINAL
ANA 5
NJ 2
Series tied 3-3
103 posted on 06/07/2003 7:42 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: Nita Nupress
This thread here has some background on the JDO, and it's relevance to this topic.
There is some irony in that post too, but that's a whole other ball of wax.
104 posted on 06/07/2003 7:45 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: hole_n_one
105 posted on 06/07/2003 7:56 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: socal_parrot
lol!
106 posted on 06/07/2003 8:03 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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Gatti/Ward fight turning into a bloody slugfest.....
107 posted on 06/07/2003 8:06 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: hole_n_one
Anaheim police deploy the "Pamplona stategy".
108 posted on 06/07/2003 8:07 PM PDT by socal_parrot (Ducks...Ducks...Ducks...)
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To: rightisright
What the hell is going on with this thread? I am CONFUSED.
109 posted on 06/07/2003 8:10 PM PDT by Xenalyte (I may not agree with your bumper sticker, but I'll defend to the death your right to stick it)
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To: FairOpinion
I think there is a lot of evidence being ignored, which point to Al Qaeda and Iraq, not Hatfill, so who cares about irrelevant details about Hatfill.
This is the second time the FBI has bungled a terrorism investigation. Remember Richard Jewell? I believe the Justice Department suffered horribly under Clinton-Reno. The damage those two did to our Justice system is evidenced here. No one will ever convince me Iraq didnt have anything to do with the Anthrax attacks, and I have a very strong urge to believe they were behind OKC.
110 posted on 06/07/2003 8:12 PM PDT by cardinal4 (The Senate Armed Services Comm; the Chinese pipeline into US secrets)
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To: hole_n_one
Gatti/Ward fight turning into a bloody slugfest.....
Not as good as the first fight, but this third and final bout was a good one nevertheless. (The 2nd fight was a boring one-sided affair). Gatti showed some serious heart fighting the majority of the contest with a (probably) broken right hand. ...He was essentially one-handed throughout the fight, and STILL dominated the punch stat #'s. Ward showed a big heart as well, but it's pretty obvious that he left most of what he had in the ring in that first fight.
Major props to both warriors (and I don't use that term lightly).
111 posted on 06/07/2003 8:24 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Mr. Mojo
They both fought hard and showed a great deal of class and respect for each other after the fight was over.
I'd give 'em both a standing 0 for their effort tonight.
112 posted on 06/07/2003 8:28 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: socal_parrot
Ya gotta love the ESPN headline.....
Still Flapping
113 posted on 06/07/2003 8:29 PM PDT by hole_n_one
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To: cardinal4
D'oh, who do you think Mueller reports to?
114 posted on 06/07/2003 8:30 PM PDT by Allan Quatermain
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For those who are confused by this thread, there is more to be confused about. This isn't the first time that the poster of this thread has used multiple identities on a thread. Other examples can be found here and here. On those threads, the two names were The Great Satan and Clinton's a Rapist. On the second one, it appears he made the same mistake he made on this one, getting his web browsers mixed up and posting from the wrong name.
To: All
ANTHRAX SCAPEGOAT?
7 posted on 09/07/2002 10:36 AM EDT by Clinton's a rapist
Compare that to this:
To: Shermy; Lion's Cub; piasa; Wallaby; John H K; Alamo-Girl
ANTHRAX SCAPEGOAT?
4 posted on 09/07/2002 3:37 PM EDT by The Great Satan
And yes, the IPs match. I wonder how many names we will find when we really look?
115 posted on 06/07/2003 8:32 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Badabing Badaboom; FairOpinion; Alamo-Girl; patriciaruth; pttttt; jpl; Pan_Yans Wife; Mitchell; ...
Wow, that's really shocking. I'm sickened and disgusted by this crime against humanity. It certainly is a sad old world we live in, with people like The Great Satan and Korova Milk Bar in it. What a scoundrel!
Now, while we're on the subject of deception, double games, false identities, etc., will somebody please find the anthrax killer and explain what the administration is up to with Amerithrax?
116 posted on 06/07/2003 8:43 PM PDT by Allan Quatermain
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To: Admin Moderator
Hysterical! He likes to keep you busy, I see! :)
117 posted on 06/07/2003 8:47 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Lurking since 2000.)
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To: Allan Quatermain
I can tell you are sickened and disgusted by the fact that people will sign up accounts, let them sit for years, just so they can pull them out at opportune moments.
118 posted on 06/07/2003 8:54 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Allan Quatermain
I think you've just been ZOTTED.
119 posted on 06/07/2003 8:57 PM PDT by wimpycat ('Nemo me impune lacessit')
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To: wimpycat
That's four screennames. Think there is a fifth?
120 posted on 06/07/2003 8:58 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Lurking since 2000.)
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To: FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper
I am sure it troubled you too.
So far on this thread, we have had you here as Korova Milk Bar, The Great Satan, Allan Quatermain, and FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper. And we also have Clinton's a Rapist.
Allan Quatermain
Account # 60935
Signup 2001-06-03
Messages 3 replies
The other post was before 9/1/01. I am sure you signed up another account and had it ready to go for totally innocent reasons.
Clinton's a rapist
Account # 19264
Signup 1999-02-26
And
The Great Satan
Account # 75639
Signup 2001-12-28
And
FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper
Account # 64128
Signup 2001-07-22
And
Korova Milk Bar
Account # 112679
Signup 2003-06-07
This does wonders for the theories you have been pushing.
121 posted on 06/07/2003 9:04 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Senator Pardek
It just keeps getting better and better, and now I have to go. Maybe you can fill me in later. :-)
122 posted on 06/07/2003 9:05 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Ping!
123 posted on 06/07/2003 9:09 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Lurking since 2000.)
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To: Allan Quatermain
"will somebody please find the anthrax killer and explain what the administration is up to with Amerithrax?"
Sure. It all has to do with using FISA to avoid a WMD incident.
Al Qaeda, Anthrax, and Ayman Zawahiri
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze43v8m/
124 posted on 06/07/2003 9:10 PM PDT by pokerbuddy0
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To: bonfire
I must've missed it, too. He wasn't attacking anyone using his alternate SN, so why the ban?
125 posted on 06/07/2003 9:19 PM PDT by cgk (Rummy on WMD: We haven't found Saddam Hussein yet, but I don't see anyone saying HE didn't exist.)
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To: Admin Moderator
So Korova Milk Bar and The Great Satan are one and the same?
126 posted on 06/07/2003 9:19 PM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Admin Moderator
Never mind. Sheesh. Did he have a point, I mean other than seeming to need that firsthand ZOT experience??
127 posted on 06/07/2003 9:26 PM PDT by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Admin Moderator
Incredible. Great detective work. I feel so dirty, so...misused.
LOL, keep up the good work.
128 posted on 06/07/2003 11:08 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: cgk
I wish I knew. I was reading this thread and next thing you know TGS was banned.
129 posted on 06/07/2003 11:16 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: Allan
Even some of us who have been following the anthrax threads don't have the context.
LOL! So true. But as much I found The Great Satan fun to read, I did come to view him as a sort of nutball. I'll miss him, especially winning bets with him.
He'd have loved the monkeypox in Milwaukee news stories.
I'll think of him every time we have a CDC alert.
130 posted on 06/08/2003 12:06 AM PDT by patriciaruth
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To: patriciaruth
TGS was a great poster! He sparked debate and even if you didn't agree with him, he was as bright as they come. Free Republic won't be the same without him. I say let's FReep the Mods and get him back!
131 posted on 06/08/2003 12:10 AM PDT by bonfire
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To: bonfire
Sorry I haven't the energy to FReep even Hillary right now.
Maybe if TGS offers sincere apologies and vows never to use multiple personalities again, he will be allowed to return after a suitable pennance time.
He can ping us and we can talk with him, so he doesn't have to invent people to talk with.
132 posted on 06/08/2003 12:23 AM PDT by patriciaruth
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To: wimpycat
Back over 20yrs ago I used to watch soap operas Allen Quartermain was a Dr. on General Hospital.
133 posted on 06/08/2003 12:43 AM PDT by oceanperch
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To: oceanperch; All
I wonder if TGS ever had an arguement with himself?
134 posted on 06/08/2003 12:45 AM PDT by Pro-Bush (I don't believe in coincidences!)
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To: patriciaruth
I remember the first time I read a thread by TGS it was pre war by about a couple of weeks and I bought into it and really got scared.
I never get the punch lines for jokes either.
Oh I just was explaining this thread to my son and it dawned on me. Multiple Personalities. I get it now!
135 posted on 06/08/2003 1:01 AM PDT by oceanperch
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To: cgk
Our family has two accounts.
But I am the only one that really posts here. I don't want King Vanity to use my screen name.
136 posted on 06/08/2003 1:13 AM PDT by oceanperch
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To: Pro-Bush
The moon is getting to that phase again.
137 posted on 06/08/2003 1:18 AM PDT by oceanperch
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To: Allan Quatermain
Mueller reports to Ashcroft, I must be missing your point. The FBI suffered horribly under the false leadership of Reno. Louie Freeh may have been a good guy, but we 'd never know; he was controlled by proxy through Reno by Clinton. To compare the current Justice department leadership to the Reno Department is moot; the Reno Justice Dept was used by the Oval Office to run intereference for the Clintons.
138 posted on 06/08/2003 8:40 AM PDT by cardinal4 (The Senate Armed Services Comm; the Chinese pipeline into US secrets)
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To: hole_n_one; socal_parrot
Boy, this is getting stranger and stranger.
Just got a mail that tipped us off to another set of names that was related to this. We already were aware of it (and had taken out almost all of them a bit ago), but it did not dawn on me that they were somehow related here.
The other person with many names seemed to be a foe of the person here. They would get into flame wars and hit abuse on each other.
Curiouser and curiouser.
139 posted on 06/08/2003 9:43 AM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator
Here's my input FWIW. I think FreeRepublic is probably the best place on the internet to find educated, well researched discussion on the anthrax attacks. TGS was one of the best contributors - some of his theories of late have been a little controversial but that doesn't take away the fact that he's a highly articulate and bright individual. It's true that recently some people from the dark side signed up to harrass TGS and they got banned. These people deservedly got banned - some of them were actually accusing TGS of being the anthrax mailer. There's even a guy out there called "anthrax profiler" who built an entire website around TGS being the anthrax killer. It is total nonsense, of course.
Just my opinion here, but I don't think TGS deserved to be banned.
140 posted on 06/08/2003 9:58 AM PDT by Badabing Badaboom
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To: Admin Moderator
If I FReeped under 5 different identities I'd have to give up eating, sleeping, and what remaining work I accomplish. This is weird.
141 posted on 06/08/2003 10:06 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (A bad day FReepin' beats a good day workin'.)
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To: Admin Moderator
Add my name to the list of people who doesn't think that TGS should be banned. Frankly, I think you are overreacting just a bit, and that using the posted link to the JDO is a rather flimsy pretext. TGS is no fan of Mordechai Levy and the JDO, and looking back through his older posts will show that to be pretty clear.
I see some openly avowed liberals on this site, not to mention liberals that are fraudulently pretending to be conservatives (I'm not going to mention any names), yet they don't get banned from this site, which is supposed to be strictly for conservatives. I respectfully ask the moderators to think it over.
142 posted on 06/08/2003 10:17 AM PDT by jpl
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To: jpl
Got a good reason for someone to have a cache of screen names signed up months or years ago?
Or a good reason for someone to be pretending to be many people? Not just on this thread, but on others in the past?
143 posted on 06/08/2003 10:22 AM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator
No. I wasn't aware that he had done that before.
144 posted on 06/08/2003 10:56 AM PDT by jpl
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To: Admin Moderator; Badabing Badaboom; Nita Nupress
I see much has happened here since I was bumped to this thread by TGS or by one of his alter egos. I was surprised to learn that he was the same individual as the oldtimer CAR. Though I can understand why he would want to change his name to reflect new interests in a new era, I can't excuse his keeping a secret cache of aliases to pretend to be several different people on the same thread. Still, I'll miss his posts and I hope he'll be allowed back before too long.
145 posted on 06/08/2003 11:01 AM PDT by Wallaby
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To: Nita Nupress; Senator Pardek
>You know you're a Freepin' addict when ...
... after learning that two familiar screen names belong to the same person, you search the archives to read that person's old postings.
146 posted on 06/08/2003 11:16 AM PDT by Wallaby
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To: Wallaby
In defence of TGS creating another screen name I would point you to the following website, created solely for the purpose of accusing TGS of being the anthrax killer:
http://anthrax-profiler.tripod.com/anthrax_profiler/id9.html
I think if I found my screen name being used as a basis of accusation of mass murder, it might behoove me to change it.
147 posted on 06/08/2003 11:42 AM PDT by Badabing Badaboom
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This thread is very interesting.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/823470/posts
Especially knowing that niman is also Rupert Cadel, Morton Ballard, MortonDBallard, Louis Mason, co-jones, RightWingJailBird were all the same person.
Particularly interesting is how niman accused The Great Satan of being Morton Ballard. And how niman accused The Great Satan of being Clinton's a Rapist- which had not been revealed at that time. See post 265.
It is also interesting how we were alerted to the fact that niman was also Louis Mason and Rupert Cadel. It was reported to us by The Great Satan.
Also interesting, this morning we got a mail from someone who was telling us that she was certain posters Mort, MortonDBallard, and one other I won't name are all the same person. This user congratulated us for banning TGS. The interesting thing is that this user signed up this year, but the MortonDBallard name had been banned last year, before this user ever came to FR. And the name Mort has not had any posts at all since the counters were implemented back in 2000. The user also seems confused as to if she is in Indiana or Michigan, but that is a side issue.
Games people play, you take it or you leave it...
148 posted on 06/08/2003 12:04 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: dighton
Dighton, you may enjoy this thread.
Also, when you get to the post just before this one and follow the link and read that thread, make sure to follow the link on post 296 and read the resulting page.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/823470/posts?page=296#296
149 posted on 06/08/2003 12:08 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Badabing Badaboom
I read the whole diatribe on that page. It appears that it doesn't actually claim that TGS is the anthrax mailer, but that the anthrax mailer is a lone American scientist (probably a microbiologist). Oh, and he claims that you are also the same person as TGS and CAR. This is the first time I have actually seen a web page set up to specifically counterattack one particular individual here on FR. Strangely, this exact same "Open Letter to Jim Robinson" diatribe appears on the pages
http://www.truthsayer.com/
and
http://mystery-microbes.tripod.com/anopenlettertojimrobinsonfreerepublicandinterestedfreepers
The open letter is signed by "TruthSayer Foundation International", which sounds like a bogus organization to me. A Yahoo search turns up nothing except that page. A WHOIS search on truthsayer.com shows that the domain has been registered to Tucows, Inc. I'll bet that whoever created this page is probably the same guy that got into the pissing contest with him a little while back.
150 posted on 06/08/2003 12:19 PM PDT by jpl
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Pop Quiz (Multiple Personality Disorder Tribute Thread)
June 7, 2003 | Korova Milk Bar
Posted on 06/07/2003 4:20 PM PDT by Korova Milk Bar
Edited on 06/07/2003 5:17 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
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To: Badabing Badaboom
That's a pretty creepy site, all right. I notice, however. that it says your screen name is another alias for TGS, and so implies that you, too, are the anthrax killer. Yet, you aren't afraid to post under Badabing Badaboom. Nor was TGS afraid to post as TGS. He wasn't even afraid to reveal that he was posting under several names, as we see here. So I think he saw taking on several aliases as just bending the rules of the forum a bit. He wasn't acting out of fear but solely for his own amusement.
151 posted on 06/08/2003 12:26 PM PDT by Wallaby
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To: Admin Moderator
For what it's worth, I'd also like to support the unbanning of TGS. Without a doubt he has been one of the most intelligent and provocative posters here. He is in a small group of about 25 posters who collectively form the core intellectual content of FR. I understand the complaints leveled towards him and some his regretable behavior. However, the loss of his fascinating posts, theories and speculations would be keenly felt by me and, I'm sure many other FReepers.
152 posted on 06/08/2003 12:30 PM PDT by ZeitgeistSurfer
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To: jpl
Ha!
That truthsayer page is a hoot.
http://www.truthsayer.com/
The fun part of that page is the John Quincy Adams writing that supposedly was censored here on Free Republic. Here's the real story.
Back in December, MortonDBallard signed up and posted that Adams piece. We knew that day that it was the same person as Mort Goetz, but at Jim's direction we let it go instead of nuking him (which is what we normally do to returning, banned posters).
Then a month later, was one of the threads I linked to above, and Jim decided enough with all of those personalities, and they were nuked. That is when MortonDBallard's posting of John Quincy Adams' work came down.
Some censorship of John Q. Adams, eh?
Never let it be said that FR censors JQA.
153 posted on 06/08/2003 12:36 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator; aculeus; general_re; BlueLancer; Poohbah; hellinahandcart; Constitution Day; ...
A fascinating saga. Thanks for the ping, AM.
He's got 'em on the list -- he's got 'em on the list;
And they'll none of 'em be missed -- they'll none of 'em be missed.
154 posted on 06/08/2003 12:52 PM PDT by dighton (Vulgar Horde)
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To: dighton
While you are here, let me ask you.
Take a look at this post here.
Tell me your impressions of that post.
155 posted on 06/08/2003 1:00 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator
In isolation, #17 makes no impression on me. As part of a whole, I'd guess it's The Great Satan chattering with himself.
156 posted on 06/08/2003 1:26 PM PDT by dighton (Vulgar Horde)
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To: Nita Nupress
>You know you're a Freepin' addict when ...
... after learning that two familiar screen names belong to the same person, you search the archives to read that person's old postings.
When I posted the above, I meant to point to the posting of CAR/TGS on the Freeper addict thread.
157 posted on 06/08/2003 1:39 PM PDT by Wallaby
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To: dighton
This is the part that I am still not quite able to put together. That post, #17, was that user's first post on Free Republic.
Within a minute, we got an abuse report from TGS telling us it is niman.
It was.
It sure looks to me like TGS was being stalked by this guy.
This post here explains much, I believe. Including how just on the guy's screen name TGS knew it was Niman.
If TGS could give a good explanation as to why he had these multiple screen names laying around from 2001, and why he was trying to play niman's game of making himself look like multiple people (which he knew had gotten niman banned many times), then I would recommend he be restored.
158 posted on 06/08/2003 1:43 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator; hellinahandcart; general_re; Poohbah; BlueLancer
If TGS could give a good explanation as to why he had these multiple screen names laying around from 2001, and why he was trying to play niman's game of making himself look like multiple people (which he knew had gotten niman banned many times), then I would recommend he be restored.
Multiple screen names aside, it seems to me that he was begging for trouble. Case in point: his repeated assertion that the Iraqi decapitation strikes were a fraud ("faux-decapitation"), and that President Bush, fearing a massive anthrax attack, had gone along with or arranged Saddam's safe passage out of Iraq. Awfully Michael Rivero-ish, IMHO.
159 posted on 06/08/2003 2:20 PM PDT by dighton (Vulgar Horde)
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To: dighton; Admin Moderator
Admit it - you two are really the same person, just pretending to have a conversation ;)
160 posted on 06/08/2003 2:34 PM PDT by general_re (ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.)
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To: dighton
Case in point: his repeated assertion that the Iraqi decapitation strikes were a fraud ("faux-decapitation"), and that President Bush, fearing a massive anthrax attack, had gone along with or arranged Saddam's safe passage out of Iraq. Awfully Michael Rivero-ish, IMHO.
Yeah, that's what I initially thought also. There's a little problem though. U.S. Army Colonel Tim Madere is officially on the record as saying that the bunker that we supposedly targeted in the decapitation strike doesn't even actually exist.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/919279/posts
His theory is starting to sound less and less Michael Rivero-ish all the time, IMHO.
161 posted on 06/08/2003 4:06 PM PDT by jpl
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To: Admin Moderator
Add me to the list of responsible, non-multiple screen name Freepers who would like to see poster TGS return. I'm a professional researcher for a publishing company that sells homeland security materials to government agencies, and I've learned a lot about bioterrorism from TGS over the past year. He and I have had very many rational, polite debates. While he puts forth controversial theories, he never does so without evidence. He is always willing to listen to the opposing view. Yes, his manner is a bit abrasive at times, but I agree with the Freeper who called him one of the core brains of FR. During my morning Freeper hour, I always check his latest posts.
162 posted on 06/08/2003 4:20 PM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: dighton
To be fair, TGS has never suggested that the Bush administration has done anything wrong. He's just been straightforward in acknowledging that the complete truth behind wars typically doesn't come out for years afterwards, and that it would be foolish for the Bush Administration to reveal everything they know about Hussein's regime and global terrorism at this time.
163 posted on 06/08/2003 4:22 PM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: dighton
I asked TGS point blank on a thread some months back if he was CAR as he was the only perosn who had ever pushed such an anthrax theory with such zeal.CAR hadn't posted on FR since Nov/Dec2001, then just vanished...while TGS appeared to push the same Doomsday stuff.He also gave it away with the same links on both homepages ;-)
164 posted on 06/08/2003 5:09 PM PDT by habs4ever
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To: Admin Moderator
I HATE it when people talk to themselves around here because I view it as a colossal waste of my time. Having said that, it does seem a shame to see someone get banned for this. JMHO.
If TGS is reinstated, please make him swear he'll never end a reply with a question mark again. :-)
165 posted on 06/08/2003 5:22 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Wallaby
Thanks for bringing that thread to my attention. It's fun reading the old ones every so often. :-)
166 posted on 06/08/2003 5:33 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Wallaby; Nita Nupress
A long time ago I recall someone accusing TGS ( when he was relatively new) of being Clinton's a Rapist. It doesn't bother me. I can see his method of using of his alter egos; he's questioning his own theories.
TGS has a special cavalier, confidence and swagger. I learned lots from him.
I can't believe Nita hasn't been banned yet for having more than one screen name either;^)
Hopefully this is a timeout, rather than a banning.
167 posted on 06/08/2003 8:02 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: Fred Mertz; Nita Nupress; cgk; bonfire; Mitchell; Badabing Badaboom; FairOpinion; Wordsmith; ...
Never fear, the Great Satan is here!
The Great Satan... watching Hatfill, 24x7
168 posted on 06/08/2003 10:56 PM PDT by The Great Satan (The Hatfill Project starts today, June 8, 2003)
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To: The Great Satan
Welcome Back...I think! ;)
169 posted on 06/08/2003 11:01 PM PDT by Pro-Bush (I don't believe in coincidences!)
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To: The Great Satan
Woo hoo! Welcome back TGS!
170 posted on 06/08/2003 11:01 PM PDT by Wallaby
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To: The Great Satan
:) Glad to have you back.
171 posted on 06/08/2003 11:01 PM PDT by cgk (Rummy on WMD: We haven't found Saddam Hussein yet, but I don't see anyone saying HE didn't exist.)
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To: The Great Satan
I guess they "unbanned" you?
Welcome back.
I hope you learned your lesson and you'll behave yourself. :) No more half a dozen screen names. No more flaunting of FR rules, so obviously, yet.
The next time they may not be so magnanimous in forgiving you.
So what has Hatfill cooked up to make himself look guilty, now? ;)
Do you think he is setting himself to be the fall guy for the monkey pox too? Someone pointed out Hatfill actually researched that virus, unlike anthrax.
172 posted on 06/08/2003 11:04 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: The Great Satan
So... can we have Illbay back too?
173 posted on 06/08/2003 11:05 PM PDT by cgk (Rummy on WMD: We haven't found Saddam Hussein yet, but I don't see anyone saying HE didn't exist.)
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Comment #174 Removed by Moderator
To: The Great Satan
This newsgroup post from April, 2003 may be interesting. I don't want to read too much into this - but notice the use of 2 phrases: "scorpions" and "licence to kill".
Scorpion was the name of a poster on a Zimbabwe news group promulgating false information that the school in Haraare was called Greendale school. Weberman's catch phrase is "who will take away his licence to kill?".PS Welcome back...
http://iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=552&set_id=1&letter_id=3618&topic_id=6&anon=n
Dr John Michie (jm5@sun.ac.za) wrote:
Letter Subject: My new card type driver's licence will be a fake
Letter date: 2003-04-10 14:07:54
I ended up queuing for my new driver's licence at Porterville Traffic Department
on Thursday 27th February 2003. When my turn came for the eye test, I removed my
glasses (I am short sighted) and put my head in the box.
Everything was a blur to me and I "guessed" the answers. I then put on my
glasses and put my head back into the box. Now I could see clearly and started
calling out the "answers". The Traffic Inspector stopped me, saying "That's all
right, I'm satisfied that you can see". He handed me the form
back and I saw that he had given me a score of 85%.
Next was the fingerprinting which went quickly, but then the long wait for the
final computer processing began, with about 50 people waiting to be processed,
and conversations were struck up. I happened to note my immediate companions in
the queue also had eye test scores of 85%. I then
thought to ask the other people in the queue what their scores were. You guessed
it - everyone had 85%!
Since it was now late afternoon and I had to be back in Table View to take care
of my children, I decided to return the following day to complete the final part
of the process. I arrived at 7am and there were about 20 people already waiting.
Although they all had to first be processed for the eye test and fingerprinting
the (same) Traffic Inspector would not allow me to
go directly to be computer processed (the PC operator was only drinking cups of
coffee and conversing with the other traffic official) but made me take my turn
in the queue. However, once I reached the eye test machine I was waved through,
likewise the fingerprinting. Once again conversations
struck up and I thought to check the eye test scores of this newly processed
selection of people. You guessed it - every single one had a score of 85%! One
of them then asked the Traffic Inspector whether he had given a score of 100% to
anyone. His reply was "I'm not giving any of you a
score of 100%. You've had 5 years in which to get your licences, I don't feel
sorry for you".
Perhaps the Scorpions would like to check the eye test scores issued by this
obnoxious Public Servant on those two days (and preceding and subsequent days).
This is a clear case of dereliction of duty. I will be
issued with a "licence to kill" - there is no way in which I would think of
driving without my glasses.
175 posted on 06/09/2003 5:35 AM PDT by Badabing Badaboom
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To: Badabing Badaboom; The Great Satan
That's a weird post and a stretch of the imagination to connect it to what you allude to IMHO. But, stranger things have happened.
TGS, I almost missed your postings for half a day;^)
176 posted on 06/09/2003 5:44 AM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: The Great Satan
We really don't want the JDO stuff up here. Thanks.
177 posted on 06/09/2003 6:24 AM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: The Great Satan
Hey! Whatever you've been doing....CUT IT OUT! FR wouldn't be the same without you.
btw, what's the "JDO stuff"?
178 posted on 06/09/2003 6:39 AM PDT by bonfire
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To: The Great Satan
And just in time for the pond draining party in Frederick MD, too.
179 posted on 06/09/2003 7:23 AM PDT by pttttt
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To: The Great Satan
In fact, while the FBI is draining the Frederick Maryland pond, maybe they should run over Hatfill's other foot. Then he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
180 posted on 06/09/2003 7:46 AM PDT by pttttt
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To: The Great Satan
The Great Satan... watching Hatfill, 24x7
Welcome back!
It appears we may not have gotten Saddam or his sons, and we didn't find the WMD. George Bush and Tony Blair are taking an enormous political hit as a result. They are both astute politicians, with access to excellent intel.
Everything beyond that at this point is pure speculation.
So what're they gonna find when they drain the swamp?
181 posted on 06/09/2003 8:49 AM PDT by EternalHope (Sometimes rhetorical questions take years to answer..)
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To: Badabing Badaboom; Mitchell; Fred Mertz; cgk; aristeides; FairOpinion; Shermy; jpl; pttttt
Interesting. I'd seen the header for that mail when Googling for Michie, but was never able to call up the whole thing. The "Scorpions" he refers to are an elite detective squad inaugurated by the South African goverment a few years ago: Scorpions target South African crime.
It certainly looks like Dr. John Michie of the University of Stellenbosch Radiobiology Lab is indeed "Scorpion," the individual who spread many of the rumors about Hatfill on South African bulletin boards, including supporting disinfo for the famous "Greendale School" talking point. Based on information I have obtained privately, it appears also that Michie provided Stephen Dresch with the e-mail concerning Hatfill allegedly sent by Prof. Bohm to Prof. Kirby, implicating all three men in gross scientific misconduct. On top of that, Michie seems to be the source for much of the material on Alan J. Weberman's "STEVE HATFILL NAZI SWINE" hate page at the JDO web site, material supposedly implicating Hatfill in white supremacist activity. If Michie supplied the e-mail to Dresch, then I would guess that he also supplied the page from Hatfill's Stellenbosch lab notebook that is reproduced on Weberman's site.
All of which raises a host of questions. If Michie is a really an enemy of Hatfill and a genuine whistle-blower, then Hatfill, Kirby, Bohm are all charlatans. Michie himself is likely, on that scenario, also a somewhat disturbed individual, inasmuch as he has been a colleague of Hatfill's thesis advisor, Bohm, since at least 1989, and authored a paper with him as recently as 2000. Odd that he would choose to collaborate scientifically with a man he knew to be a scoundrel and a charlatan. Odd that he would expose a friend like that, anonymously. Odd that he would choose to make his case through the medium of Andrew J. Weberman, the eccentric Bob Dylan "garbologist" whose Lower Manhattan apartment was used as a sniper nest by Mordechai Levy. Odd that not a wit of supporting evidence for the melodramatic tale of Hatfill's wholesale scientific deception is to be found in the public domain, and odd that his papers, including the supposedly fraudulent MSc work, are still being referenced in prestigious scientific journals to this very day.
There is another explanation for all this bizarreness, and it is the one I favor. The e-mail supplied by Michie is, IMHO, a sophisticated fraud. I say sophisticated, because the author clearly has a good understanding of molecular biology, and the "inside baseball" talk in the e-mail is quite impressive, and suggests at the very minimum considerable insight into Hatfill's MSc thesis work. This stuff is right up my alley, professionally, but I had to dig around a bit to understand what the "DIAGEN" reference and the "GC clamp" talk were about -- these details refer to the very specialized Thermal Gradient Gel Electrophoresis technique Hatfill used for the Lancet paper and are not, incidentally, discussed in that publication. Aside from noting the sophistication, one would have to assume that, if the e-mail is a fraud, the perp is either very confident that he will not be sued by the three men implicated in gross scientific conduct, and quite happy to completely trash their reputations -- or, the perp knows perfectly well that none of those individuals will raise a ruckus about the e-mail, and, even in the unlikely event someone other than the smeared parties tried to make an issue of it, the whole matter would soon be exposed as a Internet hoax and melt away in the light of day -- perhaps because the e-mail address in the To: line of the header puts Ralph Kirby in Taiwan in 1993, when he didn't move to Yang Ming university until ten years later.
On that second scenario, the author of the e-mail is likely Steven Jay Hatfill himself. Michie, who is probably a friend and confidante rather than an arch-foe of Hatfill, is acting as Hatfill's "cut-out" to feed superficially incriminating but ultimately toothless "evidence" into the Communication Stream of Conspiracy Commerce. Hatfill's Msc thesis advisor, Bohm, and his PhD thesis advisor, Kirby, are also old friends -- they've authored many papers together and Kirby was introduced to his wife by Hatfill -- and they are in the know, or at least have been given a heads up by Hatfill. They know "everything is under control" and "it's a national security issue" and Hatfill isn't a a cold-blooded murderer, nor is he in any danger of being railroaded and sent to the Florida death house, and everything's gonna be alright, and in the mean time, they should just keep their mouths shut.
And that is what my best guess as to what's really going on here. Care to hazard your own theories?
"In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies." Winston Churchill
182 posted on 06/10/2003 10:06 PM PDT by The Great Satan ("Dont bother to examine a folly ask yourself only what it accomplishes." - Ayn Rand)
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To: The Great Satan
From a scott Shane article, apparently not on FR, and I hadn't seen it before tonight:
Scientist theorized anthrax mail attack - FBI searched apartment of expert linked to study (June 27, 2002)
"...In the case of Hatfill, it is unclear why FBI agents waited at least six months after they first questioned him to conduct a thorough search of his home. One possibility: a briefing last week for Senate staffers by biologist Barbara Hatch Rosenberg.
Rosenberg, who heads a biological weapons working group at the Federation of American Scientists, has repeatedly criticized the bureau for failing to aggressively pursue a "likely suspect" whom she has not named but who closely resembles Hatfill. Her Senate briefing was attended by Van Harp, who heads the anthrax investigation as assistant FBI director in charge of the Washington field office, and three other FBI agents.
This, again, is my take:
Daschle and Leahy are angry no progress is, apparently, being made. Naturally, because they were the targets. The staffers meet with media-anointed expert Barbara Rosenberg. She gives her pitch, which I call Portrait of a Possible Frame Job
The staffers are impressed with Rosenberg's delivery, and her verisimilitude of scientific knowledge, expertise, and insider access to the industry. Additionally, since Hatfill might fit the "right wing guy" profile, connections to Rhodesia seem ominous, and these democratic staffers might be more receptive to Rosenberg's pitch thereby.
Staffers brief the boss, Daschle. He gets on the horn and says why isn't this guy being taken out? He might have threatened jobs and funding too, alarmed that the man who tried to kill him was not being pursued. In fact, I can't imagine him not making any threats, under the influence of Rosenberg's portrait.
Within days, Project Hatfill began. Leaks about searches and the like kept it public and in the minds of staffers and Daschle. The semblance of progress is being made, pressure is taken off, funding continues. Investigators start to believe the Hatfill scenario themselves. Lots of time and effort and prestige has been invested in it.
The timing of the Project Hatfill fits the Daschle meeting scenario, and, IMO, fits an explanation that is plausible within established scenarios of bureaucratic politics.
War on terror:FBI guilty of cover-up over anthrax suspect(Rosenberg knows name she says)
Before the Daschle meeting, June 16, Rosenberg had this to say:
"...Rosenberg said she knows who that person is and so do a top-level clique of US government scientists, the CIA, the FBI and the White House.
"Early in the investigation," Rosenberg told Scotland on Sunday, "a number of inside experts, at least five that I know about, gave the FBI the name of one specific person as the most likely suspect. That person fits the FBI profile in most respects. He has the right skills, experience with anthrax, up-to-date anthrax vaccination, forensic training, and access to the US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases (AMRIID) and its biological agents through 2001." ..."
In September, after the meeting, and after Hatfill's statements about Rosenberg, she might have changed her mind, or conducted some CYA to show, after the fact, that she wasn't single-minded about Hatfill:
FBI Criticized for Failing to Solve Anthrax Case (Hatfill plus Rosenberg Alert)
"...Rosenberg said she has sent a new commentary about the anthrax attacks to the FBI, but would not make it available to others. She said she did not want to interfere with the proceeding investigation by making public statements. ..."
183 posted on 06/10/2003 10:46 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: pokerbuddy0
Ping.
184 posted on 06/10/2003 10:48 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: Fred Mertz
My other screen name is Admin Moderator. ;-)
185 posted on 06/10/2003 10:50 PM PDT by Sir Gawain (Mongo only pawn in game of life)
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To: Shermy; Badabing Badaboom; Mitchell; Fred Mertz; cgk; pttttt; jpl; aristeides
Rosenberg was merely a disposable useful idiot exploited by the Bush administration in the early phases of the campaign. In phase one, the administration focused on developing left-wing useful idiots to sell the Amerithrax story. By making the Hatfill story a left-wing cause celebre, the administration ensured that their biggest potential problem -- well-funded and antagonistic liberal news outlets and watchdog groups -- would actually end up being suckered into promoting their own cover story. Once that was accomplished, they pulled the rug out from under the folks they had coaxed into priming the pump. Rosenberg and, more importantly, Kristof, dropped the story like a hot potato. It is in the nature of the operation that the coals are continually being raked over to keep the fires burning, but the primary focus since last August has been to develop right-wing useful idiots to rant and rave about how Hatfill has been railroaded, he's the victim of political correctness, the FBI is a hopelessly corrupt bastion of Clintonian malfeasance, yada, yada, yada. The carnival barker-like figure of Pat Clawson, Hatfill's friend and Oliver North's flunkie, has been the head shill for that side of the con. Both sides have been manipulated effortlessly, because most people believe that ideology, like religion, is a substitute for critical thought. The people who are running this show know their audience well. They're real pros, and they're almost ready to bring this thing home now. Watch.
"In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies." Winston Churchill
"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." P. T. Barnum
186 posted on 06/10/2003 11:13 PM PDT by The Great Satan ("Dont bother to examine a folly ask yourself only what it accomplishes." - Ayn Rand)
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To: 50sDad
...the only ones left that actually escaped from the sleeper agents of the Warren Commission are JFK and Oswald, who were separated at birth, and faked their own deaths. Elvis, the CIA sleeper, was the one that tried to shoot Kennedy from the grassy knoll...
...there IS NO OIL under Iraq...it is all a coverup...the real oil is UNDER ISRAEL but nobody knows that...the pipeline is built from a plasiconcrete invented by NICOLAS TELSA! It was put in place a six thousand years ago by Egyptian "gods"...
Hey, I think this is Art Bell's topic tonight!
187 posted on 06/10/2003 11:25 PM PDT by MrJingles ("Nietzsche is dead." - God)
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To: Shermy; Fred Mertz; cgk; Badabing Badaboom
The timing of the Project Hatfill fits the Daschle meeting scenario, and, IMO, fits an explanation that is plausible within established scenarios of bureaucratic politics.
As best can be determined from public domain sources, the genesis of Project Hatfill was the National Security Council meeting of October 17, 2001 -- the meeting described on p. 248 of Bob Woodward's authorized history of the Afghanistan campaign, Bush at War. It was at that meeting that, in response to an intelligence assessment that the anthrax threats emanated from a state sponsor of the 9/11 attacks, Vice President Dick Cheney made a decision that the truth be kept from the American people. Ten days after that meeting took place, the "domestic terrorism" story was pump-primed by none other than our old friend, Bob Woodward, writing in the Washington Post: FBI and CIA Suspect Domestic Extremists - Officials Doubt Any Links to Bin Laden.
The rest is history -- 1984-style history, anyway.
188 posted on 06/10/2003 11:44 PM PDT by The Great Satan ("Dont bother to examine a folly ask yourself only what it accomplishes." - Ayn Rand)
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To: Shermy
I agree with Shermy's analysis except for the last part. The June analysis is still represented as Dr. R's public views. So while she might have refined her analysis, if she had changed her bottom-line conclusion, she would keep the June analysis up.
189 posted on 06/11/2003 6:50 AM PDT by pokerbuddy0
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To: The Great Satan
But while I think Shermy's insights are right on target, common sensical and have more evidence to support them than TGS' wild speculation, I have to admit that The Great Satan's brilliant speculation -- however extreme seeming -- remain thought-provoking.
Here is an insightful early op ed by Dr. Stanley Bedlington, a political scientist. He used to meet Steve for lunch along with others at a bistro in McClean. The WP Op Ed is from October 2001. In it, he shares profound insights about The Great Satan, the importance of myth and piercing an adversary's seeming invincibility, and the anthax mailings -- and he's right on target with his understanding of the role Egyptian writer Qutb plays in the thinking of the militant islamists. Although I had initially had a superficial negative impression based on his comments on CNN to Paula Zahn about bloodhounds, Greendale, and the "evidence is mounting" against Hatfill, I now see that he's a very smart analyst whose opinion deserves a lot of respect. It's titled "Not Who You Think"
Not Who You Think
By Stanley Bedlington
Sunday, October 28, 2001; Page B01
Nobody who has seen it forgets the image of the man on the video: the apparently indomitable Arab veteran seated at the mouth of a cave, deriding Americans -- "the cowards of this age" -- for being "full of fear" while threatening further violence against them. But for a man of such belligerent words, Osama bin Laden is no fighter, nor of course are the inhospitable caves and mountain retreats of Afghanistan his true home. The release of the video, as well as the publication of numerous staged photographs of the terrorist leader in military fatigues, crouching on one knee and pointing his AK-47 at an unseen target, reflect his desire to build up a myth of himself as a warrior.
CIA operatives, who ran the covert campaign to arm the mujaheddin, or guerrilla forces, against the Soviets in the 1980s, tell another story: The Arab volunteers bin Laden joined made no great contribution to the battle; the fighting fell mainly to the Afghans. At best, CIA operatives say, bin Laden may have fired a few rounds in self-defense. They attest instead to the wealthy Saudi exile's proclivity for the role he plays today -- which has been to raise money and use it to provide construction equipment and logistics and to fund and advance his terrorist campaign.
It has become increasingly clear to me, ever since the threat bin Laden poses first came to my attention in the late '80s, that he is bent on enhancing his reputation by building myths about himself that will appeal to his followers. Puncturing those myths -- both to enhance our own understanding of what we are up against in the current war against and to enlighten the people over whom bin Laden holds sway -- is the skill we must now develop. For while the man who is now America's Most Wanted would like to be seen as an indomitable warlord, there can be little doubt that he is really a master of planning, and that his ambitions are limitless. His modus operandi is already far too familiar: He devises an attack, then provides guidance about the timing and location, but otherwise remains aloof from danger. That's why I call him a "facilitator" -- a description that echoes one of bin Laden's preferred code names, "The Contractor."
In trying to understand bin Laden's intentions, the CIA's goal has always been to assess where he fits within the political and religious power structures of the region. By the mid-1980s, he had already made a name for himself by helping to fund the anti-Soviet fighters in Afghanistan. But when he returned to Saudi Arabia in 1989, though initially treated like a hero, he soon fell foul of the religious establishment for criticizing its lack of devotion. After fleeing to Sudan in 1991, he collaborated with the National Islamic Front -- an organization that combines radical Islamist politics with ruthless violence, although its activities there have recently been curbed. But it was after the Persian Gulf War that bin Laden came into view on the CIA counterterrorist center's radar screen, as he began building training camps in Sudan for extremists from all over the Muslim world. We watched as he melded front organizations into what became al Qaeda -- his international network of terrorist groups and their support cells.
One of bin Laden's strategies has been to mix his real motivations with goals designed to appeal to wide swaths of disaffected Muslims. He has talked for several years about his desire to expel U.S. forces from Saudi Arabia, and has expressed real anger at the pollution of that country's holiest sites -- Mecca and Medina -- by the presence in the region during the Persian Gulf War of hundreds of thousands of non-Muslims. More recently, he has spoken out about the plight of Palestinians, but I believe he has done so out of expediency, seeing in the Palestinian cause a means of attracting new Muslim recruits. Together, these issues provide bin Laden with a potent rallying cry.
Although these objectives spur on his actions, bin Laden's ambitions -- both personal and social -- are greater. Based on his own statements and those of his close associates, bin Laden wants to be portrayed in the Islamic world as a latter-day caliph, or supreme ruler, in the image of the Prophet Muhammad's successors -- a figure who can unite all of Islam. The title not only evokes historic Islamic power but also underlies his grand strategy of bringing together as many terrorist groups as possible, giving him, as the word al Qaeda implies, a "base" from which to spread his influence.
But perhaps just as important as his egotism is bin Laden's ardent desire to halt the flood of American popular culture into the Islamic world. Echoing the inflammatory anti-Western writings of extremists such as Syed Qutb, an Egyptian who gained prominence in the early 1960s, and Maulana Abu Ala Maududi, a Pakistani who continued to be active into the '70s, bin Laden believes that the United States is the "Great Satan." He sees Islam under assault from a rising tide of secularized modernity led by America and by corrupt Arab governments and monarchies.
That is not to suggest that bin Laden is in tune with the beliefs of modern Islam. Having lived in Muslim countries for almost 20 years, I know that, by choosing to obey and enforce the harsh laws of Pashtun village elders, bin Laden and his Taliban comrades are divorcing themselves from the majority of Muslims. He finds company instead in a line of extremists dating back to the Kharijites, who emerged within decades of the Prophet Mohammed's death. For while the scale of bin Laden's violence may be unprecedented, his philosophy of violence is nothing new. Echoing the words of George Habbash, former leader of the terrorist group known as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, who warned several years ago that "in this war, no one is neutral, no one is innocent," bin Laden recently said that "in the name of retaliation there are no innocents."
It comes as no surprise then to see bin Laden readily abjure the religious mainstream, as did the extremists who came before him. His thinking reflects that of Syed Qutb, who shaped himself in the Kharijite mold and attacked the United States during the 1960s for propagating "that crass and vacuous materialistic perception of life; that animal freedom called permissiveness; that slave market dubbed women's liberation." Beliefs such as these are focal to bin Laden's thinking.
He thus juxtaposes his jihad, or holy war, against the United States with the Crusades. In his fatwa issued in February 1998, bin Laden specifically invoked the term jihad as the collective duty of the entire Islamic ummat -- the worldwide community of Muslims -- summoning his followers to perform jihad against both Christianity and Judaism. But both of these religions are described in sacred Islamic texts as Ahl Al-Kitab, or "People of the Book" -- that is, as communities that have received revelation from God in scriptures, and who must be treated with respect. To mount an attack against them is antithetical to the teachings of the Koran.
Once again, then, bin Laden has defiled his own religion in pursuit of his grand strategy, creating his own myth of jihad and ignoring the teachings of the Koran when it suits him. Even in the heat of battle, Islam requires that certain moral inhibitions must be maintained: "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you," the Koran demands, "but do not transgress limits, for God loves not the transgressor." In other words, a Muslim can fight back provided it is in defense of Islam, but the indiscriminate slaughter of innocents, whether Muslims or non-Muslims, is not permissible. Compare these to bin Laden's own religious rules: "We do not differentiate between . . . military and civilians." All Americans are targets according to the terms of his fatwa.
The willingness of bin Laden to transgress strict Koranic injunctions is seemingly boundless. If there were any question about whether he believes the ends of his strategy justify his means, his fascination with weapons of mass destruction should lay it to rest. Whether or not the current anthrax infections prove to have been perpetrated by al Qaeda supporters on the orders of bin Laden, there is no doubt that he has often demonstrated his proclivity for wholesale slaughter. Experts on Afghanistan have strong evidence to show that at one secret laboratory at the Abu Shahab camp in Afghanistan, research has been conducted on chemical and nerve gases. The State Department's latest annual report on international terrorism states that al Qaeda "continues to seek chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear capabilities."
It is in this willingness to create his own myths, to endorse mass murder as part of his jihad, that bin Laden's Achilles' heel may lie. He expressed no remorse for the Muslims killed on Sept. 11. Perhaps, he sees them as Westernized moderates standing in the way of his ambitions. But his horrendous acts sadden and anger the majority of Muslims around the world. They are infuriated to see bin Laden treat violence as an integral part of Islam, almost as a sixth Pillar of the Faith. And they shudder at his willingness to mold Islamic thinking to suit his own goals, seeing in it the risks of his achieving the title of caliph and thereby wielding immense political power.
There is no precedent, no authority in Islam for the slaughter bin Laden perpetrated on that bright September morning. His death may yet be within reach of American forces overseas, but the downfall of his philosophy of terror may lie in the hope that people increasingly see through the myth of religiously sanctioned invincibility that bin Laden has woven around himself.
Stanley Bedlington studied Osama bin Laden as a senior analyst at the CIA's counterterrorism center, where he worked from 1978 until 1994. He is currently a consultant on Middle East affairs.
190 posted on 06/11/2003 6:59 AM PDT by pokerbuddy0
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To: The Great Satan; Shermy; Badabing Badaboom; FairOpinion
Dr. B is widely recognized as a counterterrorism expert:
``If you break up the Taliban where would Osama bin Laden go?'' Stan Bedlington, former CIA counterterrorism analyst, asked.
``Afghanistan is a very different country now than it was when the Soviets invaded. When the Soviets came in everybody unified,'' Bedlington said. ``Now it's a collection of ethnicities who are at each other's throats basically. And I think we can prey on those weaknesses,'' he added.
Echoing the thought by Vince Cannistraro, a former CIA counterterrorism chief, They wont die for Ayman. Theyll die for Osama, Dr. Bedlington has observed Nobody has the reputation that [Osama Bin Laden] has. "He doesn't make idle threats," Dr. Bedlington observed of Bin Laden, but no doubt viewing it as equally applicable to Ayman.
"Frankly, when I heard the news [of 9/11], I thought, 'It's got to be biochemical,'" said Stan Bedlington, a retired CIA analyst at the agency's Counterterrorism Center. "This is frightening enough and yet, you could take a small plane and sprinkle anthrax over New York City and wipe out half the population."
Then in August 2002, he was talking about anthrax-smelling bloodhounds and the fact that Dr. Hatfill lived near a place (Greendale) used in the return address. Hmm....
`Now it's a collection of ethnicities who are at each other's throats basically. And I think we can prey on those weaknesses,'' Hm... sounds like a brilliant psy ops strategist. :0)
Interview with Stan Bedlington
by Paula Zahn
8 August 2002 - 06:00
CNN: American Morning with Paula Zahn
A discussion with a former CIA counter-terrorism expert about a suspect the FBI is investigating in the anthrax case. Bedlington talks about the evidence that is mounting against scientist Steven Hatfill.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As the government moves forward with its probe into last year's deadly anthrax attacks, lawyers for a former U.S. Army scientist are complaining about how investigators are treating their client. Some new details are emerging today about Steven Hatfill, a former biochemist at Fort Detrick.
CNN learned yesterday that Hatfill's lawyers requested a meeting with someone from the U.S. attorney's office, although we do not know if that meeting has taken place. Hatfill has not been charged with anything, but at least one long time acquaintance believes the evidence against him is mounting.
Stan Bedlington, a former CIA counter-terrorism expert, joins us now from Washington.
Good to have you with us this morning, Stan. Welcome.
STAN BEDLINGTON, FORMER CIA COUNTER-TERRORISM EXPERT: Thank you
very much.
ZAHN: So what do you make of these reports that a meeting is being encouraged between Mr. Hatfill's attorneys and government officials?
BEDLINGTON: Well, frankly, I was somewhat surprised that the meeting was held apparently, it if has been held, frankly I thought perhaps they were going to try and cut some sort of a deal with the public prosecutor. But this is not the case. As we understand it, the meeting was held in order to present some complaints about the way Steven Hatfill is being treated by the FBI and the Justice Department.
But I think the evidence is mounting that he does have some questions to answer.
ZAHN: And in your judgment, what is the most significant piece of evidence that would suggest that perhaps that Mr. Hatfill was behind these anthrax attacks?
BEDLINGTON: Well, I think you probably read the article in, I think it was in "Newsweek" on Monday, which talks about the FBI taking some bloodhounds to Hatfill's apartment and other places early last week. And the bloodhounds, as soon as they got into Hatfill's apartment, ran over to him and, you know, starting showing that they'd picked up a scent. They, the bloodhounds had been shown a package coming from the two envelopes addressed to Senator Lahey and Senator Daschle, which still obviously had some scent of anthrax. And they sniffed that and they went straight to Hatfill, not once but on several occasions.
So bloodhound evidence is, in fact, admissible in court. So the evidence is mounting. But I don't think it's by any means a done case yet. Much more evidence is required.
ZAHN: It's also interesting to note that the bloodhounds, according to published reports, also became agitated when they were taken to the apartment building of one of Hatfill's friends and then actually to a restaurant in Louisiana where Mr. Hatfill had eaten the day before.
Let's go on to what you make of the -- or made of the FBI searches of his apartment. Why was nothing yielded, as at least we've been told nothing was yielded, from that search?
BEDLINGTON: Well, of course, we don't know what the FBI has picked up. But there's been no leaks or any suggestion that they've found anything of, appropriate to the prosecution, that would further the prosecution. I mean Steven Hatfill, I mean I've known him for some years. He's an incredibly intelligent man, a very clever man. We cannot say for sure that he was involved in this anthrax case. Far from it.
But if he was, if he was, then I'm certain he's quite capable of covering his tracks.
ZAHN: Are you of the mind, though, that the kind of anthrax that laced the letters to Tom Daschle, among others, were not of the home grown variety but a very sophisticated type of anthrax?
BEDLINGTON: I'm told that. I'm not a scientist. I'm a political scientist, for what it's worth. So I really cannot answer that. But that is certainly the conclusion that the reports in the media have come to.
ZAHN: You have said that Steven Hatfill actually showed you plans that he had drawn up in the case of a biological attack. Can you share a little bit of that with us this morning?
BEDLINGTON: Yes, they were eminently reasonable and rational. He's very proud of two things he said that ought to be done. I should back off a little and say that he was very contemptuous of the plans that the U.S. government had in place to combat a potential biological attack and what to do afterwards. So he drew up his own, he said.
The one, the first one was a set of ambulances which would have special filters to keep out whatever toxic spores were still in the air. And the other was what he called a disaster train, a train that would be standing by in whatever location you need it. The train would have on board laboratories, clinics, first responders, doctors, nurses, etc. In other words, it could do everything to deal with a post-attack situation.
ZAHN: In closing this morning, do you think Mr. -- that the FBI has their suspect in this man?
BEDLINGTON: I honestly don't know, to tell you the truth. All I can say is the evidence seems to be mounting. If you look at the evidence on -- from the addresses on those two letters to Lahey and Daschle, which are similar to a place he studied in Zimbabwe when he was studying for his M.D., and if you look at the bloodhound search, then certainly there are, the evidence is mounting and there is a case to answer.
ZAHN: Well, we appreciate your sharing some of your insights with us this morning.
Stan Bedlington, thank you very much for your time.
BEDLINGTON: Thank you very much.
ZAHN: Appreciate it.
191 posted on 06/11/2003 7:24 AM PDT by pokerbuddy0
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To: pokerbuddy0
Wow, a double-dose of snow today?
192 posted on 06/11/2003 11:26 AM PDT by The Great Satan ("Dont bother to examine a folly ask yourself only what it accomplishes." - Ayn Rand)
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To: The Great Satan
Relating to origin of Greendale point -
CNN
SHOW: CNN LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER 12:00
August 4, 2002 Sunday
Transcript # 080400CN.V47
Client ID/Project Name: Hatfill Project snowscreen
Research Information:
BLITZER: Stan Bedlington, take a look at this, I want to put it up on the screen, the return address of one of the letters. Look at this, fourth grade, Greendale School, Franklin Park, New Jersey, then the zip code. Greendale School -- there is no Greendale School in Franklin Park, New Jersey. But, Greendale, as far as you know, did ring an alarm bell, when you heard that mention of that
word.
BEDLINGTON: Yes, it did. Steve Hatfill got his MD at what is now the University of Zimbabwe. It had another name in those days. And I looked it up on the Internet. And, in fact, it is located in Greendale, which is a suburb of Harare. So you have what I think is an amazing coincidence between the two names.
Compare:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze43v8m/alqaeda,anthrax,.html#Greendale
193 posted on 06/11/2003 11:37 AM PDT by pokerbuddy0
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To: The Great Satan; Nita Nupress; Badabing Badaboom; cgk
I forgot something in my "take" above: the authority of the Mr. Z Kristof article in the NYTimes. All Washington read it. It was crafty. Senators reading likely would say "Why isn't anything being done about Mr. Z?" Plus all the Rosenberg play in other articles. It created the environment where Rosenberg alone would be the authority, validated by the press attention she garnered.
194 posted on 06/11/2003 7:57 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: Shermy
The timing of the Project Hatfill fits the Daschle meeting scenario, and, IMO, fits an explanation that is plausible within established scenarios of bureaucratic politics.
This sounds very plausible. The last two weeks in June, 2002 seem to have been very busy.
195 posted on 06/11/2003 8:45 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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